LSnSC Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 (edited) Shooting low BC bullets in the Grendle defeats it's very purpose. I shoot a designated marksman series were the format is two man teams shooting 1-2 MOA steel out to 600 from various positions. I shoot a 308 gas gun running 178 Amaxes at 2500 and my partner shoots a shoots a Grendle running 123 Amaxes at 2500. It is impossible to tell the difference between the two on steel. His Grendle shoots about half a mil flatter and has about half a mil less wind drift at 4-600. It is an excellent cartridge for moderate ranges out of the AR-15 platform and excels at these matches. Edited October 30, 2014 by LSnSC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianATL Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 LSnSC are you talking of the match at Woody's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonytheTiger Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 (edited) Not to seem like I'm personally attacking you Usmc (no animosity here, just a friendly debate) but in one post you claim the Grendel to be pricey, in the follow up post you state that it's simply not in your budget. Those are two very different things. No one is telling you to ditch your 308, there's not enough performance difference between the two to drop one for the other if your already set up for your preferred round. We're simply comparing ballistics here, completely independent of emotions or attachment to cartridges we already fire or love. Edit to add: one reason to drop the 308 in favor of the Grendel would be if your a recoil sensitive shooter. What's not to like about similar performance with less thrust headed your way? I wouldn't consider myself recoil sensitive but I'm honest enough to admit I just don't care to practice out the occasional flinch I get when shooting anything 308 or bigger from a prone position. Edited October 30, 2014 by TonytheTiger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSnSC Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 That's it. We finished 11th Saturday. Not too shabby for our first season. We learned a lot and will be back with a vengeance next season. I want someone to share their 175 gr 2600 FPS gas gun load. I can't break 2500 with mine. Varget, 4895 and RL 15 all give about the same speeds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonytheTiger Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Barrel length? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSnSC Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 20" 1-11.25 twist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonytheTiger Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Hmm... don't know what to tell you. I'm no ballistician but just based on barrel length I would think you could beat 2500 fps. Don't really know what I'm talking about here though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lee blackman Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 (edited) LSnC, just a quick question, but why are you shooting 178's if your only going out to 600 yards? Kinda seems a little overkill, and waste of money. You talking 12 minutes or so of drop at 500 yards from a 100 yard zero. I'd be willing to bet you could push a 110 V-Max at 3100 to 3200 out of that 20" gasser... That would put it at 10 minutes at 500 and 14 at 600 on a 100 yard zero. Thats pretty flat... I'd recommend looking into the 110gr VMax or a 125gr SMK. That and you'll probably save some money per shot too... I'm going to site you to JP rifles load document. Serious take a couple minutes and just scroll down to the load data part. http://www.jprifles.com/document_pdfs/JP%20Loading%20Document_600.pdf Oh, I'm running 41.8gr IMR 4064 thru my 20" at just over 2500 for 175's. The same load in my 26" bolt gun pushes over 2600... Edited October 30, 2014 by lee blackman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usmc1974 Posted October 30, 2014 Author Share Posted October 30, 2014 (edited) Not to seem like I'm personally attacking you Usmc (no animosity here, just a friendly debate) but in one post you claim the Grendel to be pricey, in the follow up post you state that it's simply not in your budget. Those are two very different things. No one is telling you to ditch your 308, there's not enough performance difference between the two to drop one for the other if your already set up for your preferred round. We're simply comparing ballistics here, completely independent of emotions or attachment to cartridges we already fire or love. Edit to add: one reason to drop the 308 in favor of the Grendel would be if your a recoil sensitive shooter. What's not to like about similar performance with less thrust headed your way? I wouldn't consider myself recoil sensitive but I'm honest enough to admit I just don't care to practice out the occasional flinch I get when shooting anything 308 or bigger from a prone position. Well OK,then. It is to pricey and it is not in my budget, to me this is the same thing. I do like the 308. The Grendel is a nice little round. Things being what they are in today's world I will always find 308 ammo. Oh my load is 44 grains Varget in lapua brass trimmed to 2.005 175 nosler custom competition bullet. oal of 2.800 out of a 1in 11 twist lilja 20 inch barrel. Edited October 30, 2014 by usmc1974 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shootsforfun Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Well if anyone cares the ppu 120 bthp bullets I load are great for hunting dogs and do real well on targets. If anyone wants cheap bullets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Smith Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Hmm maybe we define winning differently Actually, our differences may be due more to how we got to our results. I'm not using theoretical data. I was basing what I said on a comparison done last year using field results from 5 days of shooting with a group largely made up of police marksmen. Almost everyone had 20" .308 bolt guns except two guys with 20" Grendel AR's. The Grendels did fine up until 700yd and at that point they started having problems with the wind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianATL Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 I didn't have to watch I own and shoot them both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonytheTiger Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 I think a lot of guys are missing the point of the Grendel. Its ballistics aren't that impressive till you take IT'S SIZE into account (caps to indicate mid volume yelling). If it needed +40 grains of powder and a bigger case to do what it does I wouldn't be interested. If I wanted to beat 308 on a level playing field I'd just do a 6.5CM. For now I'll probably just be content to match 308 performance with half the cartridge. For some strange reason some of us like the challenge of using a hatchet when we probably need an ax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lee blackman Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 (edited) Comparing the 6.5grendel to the 308win is like apples to oranges. Apples to apples would be comparing the 6.5grendel to the .223rem, 300blackout, 6.8spc and other cartridges that you could find on the same AR platform. For the 308win, its the .260rem and 6.5creedmore. I think its kinda wierd no one has compared the 6mm realm. I think one person mentioned the 6mm creedmore (not the 6.5). Berger 105gr BTHP's in 6mm have a .547 G1 BC... Run the ballistics on that coming out of a 243rem at 3000fps, its pretty darn impressive. Edited October 30, 2014 by lee blackman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usmc1974 Posted October 30, 2014 Author Share Posted October 30, 2014 I think a lot of guys are missing the point of the Grendel. Its ballistics aren't that impressive till you take IT'S SIZE into account (caps to indicate mid volume yelling). If it needed +40 grains of powder and a bigger case to do what it does I wouldn't be interested. If I wanted to beat 308 on a level playing field I'd just do a 6.5CM. For now I'll probably just be content to match 308 performance with half the cartridge. For some strange reason some of us like the challenge of using a hatchet when we probably need an ax. I. have to. Give you this one being cheap as I am. This is it strongest selling point, along with the fact it rides in a very small package. So'one for the tiger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonytheTiger Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Yay! I can now retire from this thread with honor. Just kidding, I've got too much invested in this to back out now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonytheTiger Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Your right Lee, it's not a fair comparison. That's what makes it so interesting, even the Grendel detractors admit it does a pretty good job of at least keeping up with the 308 considering it's size. But when you do an apples/apples comparison it destroys everything else at longer ranges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usmc1974 Posted October 30, 2014 Author Share Posted October 30, 2014 What about a AR15 in 243wssm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonytheTiger Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Sounds interesting, I think Olympic Arms makes something along those lines. Also sounds like a barrel burner with few factory ammo options. I could be wrong but I think the super shorts can be finicky to load, potentially more so in a semi auto. One positive grendel aspect not yet mentioned is its relatively low pressure. Forgot about that till just now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianATL Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 243 wssm has lots of negative issues 6mm Rat or 6mm AR a better choice in the AR 15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianATL Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 (edited) double Edited October 30, 2014 by BrianATL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayDee Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Concerning price…. Alexander Arms makes a really usable complete upper in 6.5 Grendel for around $800. For me, that was a fairly affordable way to get into a longer range cartridge that didn't necessitate a new lower or separate rifle. The glass you put on it is another matter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usmc1974 Posted October 30, 2014 Author Share Posted October 30, 2014 how long and upper/barrel and what twist do you need to go out to 1400 yards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonytheTiger Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 (edited) Define "go out to"? I've seen a 20" 1 in 10 308 go that far on steel silhouettes. It wasn't the optimal tool for the job but just because a bullet is well past it's normal effective range doesn't mean you can't make decent hits with it. Google Todd Hodnett for some good reading on making ordinary cartridges do things they weren't meant to. Edited October 31, 2014 by TonytheTiger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usmc1974 Posted October 31, 2014 Author Share Posted October 31, 2014 (edited) Define "go out to"? I've seen a 20" 1 in 10 308 go that far on steel silhouettes. It wasn't the optimal tool for the job but just because a bullet is well past it's normal effective range doesn't mean you can't make decent hits with it. Google Todd Hodnett for some good reading on making ordinary cartridges do things they weren't meant to. A lot of the guys I shoot long range with go out that far easy with 308's why do you want to keep saying that? did you not read ( I don't know how the military does it with the 308) and by now you should know what I mean by go out, I told you what we mostly shoot. Is 1400 to far for you to think about?what? I am only fair at best, and I hit easily a 16"x18" steel at 800. Edited October 31, 2014 by usmc1974 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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