motosapiens Posted September 11, 2014 Share Posted September 11, 2014 Who wins what depends on who shoots what this month. We almost always have division winners in Open, Limited, L-10 and Production, It is much more likely to have class winners in B and C than in A. Hmmmmmmmmm. So if someone trains and practices and gets better, the folks he left behind in b and c class get rewarded for being lazy? lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CZinSC Posted September 11, 2014 Share Posted September 11, 2014 The fact is that I may still have a little difficulty convincing him that he is wrong - lol. When it comes to rules, just politely ask him to show you in the rulebook the rule that supports his conclusion. We have a couple of older gentlemen at our range. They both "know" the rules very well. Unfortuatenly they are quoting rules that changed years ago. So they were right, in 1999, but no to so much anymore. Usualy a polite "no sir, they changed that rule, it's now legal to do XYZ, check it out in the current rule book" usually quiets them down pretty quick because neither of them ever carries a rule book with them. The catering to the new shooters should be in the form of a good introduction and safety course. If you cater to "new shooters" with stage design, you will only have new shooters...and eventually no shooters. Spot on. I couldn't agree with this statement more! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teros135 Posted September 11, 2014 Share Posted September 11, 2014 You know the rules now, but don't trounce the old guy too hard...I no longer carry the rulebook in my range bag either, I have it on my phone, easier to search. There are generally three types of shooters. newbies, experienced shooters who do not shoot majors, and experienced shooters who do shoot majors. If you have a lot of guys going to Nationals or Area matches, it might be good customer service to offer stages in the flavor of those matches. OTOH, if you have more guys who like big stages, it might be good customer service to cater to them. More than likely, a good balance will be the best solution for most clubs. The catering to the new shooters should be in the form of a good introduction and safety course. If you cater to "new shooters" with stage design, you will only have new shooters...and eventually no shooters. The old guy is one of my best friends. Without him, I wouldn't be shooting USPSA. He has also been a positive role model in my life because he is competitive, he leads, he served his country, he was successful in his career, he participates in various civic organizations, he is faithful to his friends, so he shows me what a good citizen should strive to be. He is also a type-A personality and by his very nature a little controlling. The fact is that I may still have a little difficulty convincing him that he is wrong - lol. The running of our club has been an excellent adventure and a good experience. As I write this, I am eagerly anticipating the arrival of my issue of Front Sight because our club is mentioned; I will have to save that; we have come so far very rapidly. However - I still want my big stages. Well, the deal is that there aren't any "local rules" in USPSA, and you can't be a USPSA affiliate club if you have local rules that restrict or void the USPSA rules. Perhaps you can point your friend to the rule book, which doesn't have any restriction on round count at Level I, and also share with him the many discussions on BE about what works for local matches, new shooters, safety, and such. Sometimes it takes "someone else" saying it before it can be heard. Ultimately, the MD makes the decisions, and if that's his role you may need to do some persistent but diplomatic discussion, and if MD is your role you'll need to make those decisions, knowing that everybody won't necessarily like them (another well-known characteristic of the BE forums! <grin>). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luv2rideWV Posted September 11, 2014 Author Share Posted September 11, 2014 Well - lol - just had the talk and quoted the rule to my buddy. He still doesn't want high round count stages because it might scare off the new shooter if he thinks he needs five boxes of ammo to come compete. He doesn't really care what is done elsewhere - says we'll do our own thing. Little frustrating. Glad he's my buddy. My next topic might be to the therapy forum. Do we have one of those? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2MoreChains Posted September 11, 2014 Share Posted September 11, 2014 (edited) IMO your friend has not made up a local rule that he is applying in contravention of the USPSA rules. He is just giving voice to his views on something that he believes. I think he is in compliance with the rulebook because the rulebook does not have a requirement that says you MUST have 32 round courses, it just says that you can. If somebody wants to host a match comprised of 6 short courses, they can do so. I suspect a few indoor clubs that have small bays or other types of restrictions already do this. Same thing with hosting a Special Classifier match (which IMO is just a bunch of short or standard courses). Its up to the MD and he/she-who-designs-the-stages to decide what they want to host at a L1 match. That said, me being me, I would start pushing it a llittle by designing 24 rnd stages, then 26, then 28... and kind of ease him (and the new shooters) into it. Long stages do not have to be hard stages. You can design some hoser stages with a little bit of movement in them and space out barrels that allow people to stage mags. Then maybe what will happen is: a) your fellow shooters will really enjoy those "longer stages"; b they will say so; ultimately leading to c) maybe changing the opinion of your friend and show him that 32 rnd course are not evil or as impacting to new shooters. Or d) go shoot at a different club... Edited September 11, 2014 by 2MoreChains Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alecmc Posted September 11, 2014 Share Posted September 11, 2014 I don't think we have paid Revolver division yet. Sadly True. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teros135 Posted September 11, 2014 Share Posted September 11, 2014 My next topic might be to the therapy forum. Do we have one of those? Therapy forum? Like Tom Hanks said, "There's no crying in USPSA" (well, kinda like he said...) We don't need no therapy forum - we've got the best therapy there is .... USPSA! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 Who wins what depends on who shoots what this month. We almost always have division winners in Open, Limited, L-10 and Production, It is much more likely to have class winners in B and C than in A. Hmmmmmmmmm. So if someone trains and practices and gets better, the folks he left behind in b and c class get rewarded for being lazy? lol. Nope. But remember we need three (and eight for second) in class -- and the talent pool within each division is deeper in B and C classes than it is in A.... On the other hand, A shooters might contend for division winner in some divisions.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 You know the rules now, but don't trounce the old guy too hard...I no longer carry the rulebook in my range bag either, I have it on my phone, easier to search. There are generally three types of shooters. newbies, experienced shooters who do not shoot majors, and experienced shooters who do shoot majors. If you have a lot of guys going to Nationals or Area matches, it might be good customer service to offer stages in the flavor of those matches. OTOH, if you have more guys who like big stages, it might be good customer service to cater to them. More than likely, a good balance will be the best solution for most clubs. The catering to the new shooters should be in the form of a good introduction and safety course. If you cater to "new shooters" with stage design, you will only have new shooters...and eventually no shooters. The old guy is one of my best friends. Without him, I wouldn't be shooting USPSA. He has also been a positive role model in my life because he is competitive, he leads, he served his country, he was successful in his career, he participates in various civic organizations, he is faithful to his friends, so he shows me what a good citizen should strive to be. He is also a type-A personality and by his very nature a little controlling. The fact is that I may still have a little difficulty convincing him that he is wrong - lol. The running of our club has been an excellent adventure and a good experience. As I write this, I am eagerly anticipating the arrival of my issue of Front Sight because our club is mentioned; I will have to save that; we have come so far very rapidly. However - I still want my big stages. Well, the deal is that there aren't any "local rules" in USPSA, and you can't be a USPSA affiliate club if you have local rules that restrict or void the USPSA rules. Perhaps you can point your friend to the rule book, which doesn't have any restriction on round count at Level I, and also share with him the many discussions on BE about what works for local matches, new shooters, safety, and such. Sometimes it takes "someone else" saying it before it can be heard. Ultimately, the MD makes the decisions, and if that's his role you may need to do some persistent but diplomatic discussion, and if MD is your role you'll need to make those decisions, knowing that everybody won't necessarily like them (another well-known characteristic of the BE forums! <grin>). I'm pretty sure it would be legal to run a USPSA that only puts on short or medium stages. Berm and bay considerations could play a factor. Now, if there's competition from matches at bigger and better facilities that are better run, this hypothetical match might not be successful, but it wouldn't be illegal..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 Who wins what depends on who shoots what this month. We almost always have division winners in Open, Limited, L-10 and Production, It is much more likely to have class winners in B and C than in A. Hmmmmmmmmm. So if someone trains and practices and gets better, the folks he left behind in b and c class get rewarded for being lazy? lol. Nope. But remember we need three (and eight for second) in class -- and the talent pool within each division is deeper in B and C classes than it is in A.... On the other hand, A shooters might contend for division winner in some divisions.... Making A is tough so there are not nearly as many out there. I'm not sure it's true but I was crying in my beer recently about not being able to crack the A bracket in Open and a buddy said he thought the number was something like only 25% of Open shooters ever achieve A and above. Made feel a little better I guess but not as good as another beer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjb45 Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 Mark, I use to travel to A2 and Nationals yearly. Around a month or so before the match, my stages were more difficult. Much to the displeasure of many shooters. I have been known to put up standards. Most of our matches our fairly straight forward, however, when traveling to other matches, often the targets are no longer at 7-12 yards but 20-30 yards with hard cover and no shoots abound. So my intention is to make the stages like you would expect at a Regional or National Championship. IMO there is nothing wrong with 32 round stages or a stage that pushes people out of their comfort zone. It lets those who want to improve know what they need to improve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
remoandiris Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 (edited) Hmmmmmmmmm. So if someone trains and practices and gets better, the folks he left behind in b and c class get rewarded for being lazy? lol. How shocking!!! Sandbaggers. KRAZY. Never knew anything like that happened in shooting sports. Yes, that is sarcasm. Edited September 12, 2014 by remoandiris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teros135 Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 Nobody stays very long with just the two mags that came with the gun. If you're gonna stay, you get more mags. After all, you're gonna buy the ammo and gear to do this, why not buy the mags? Duh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EkuJustice Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 Easy way to change stuff is speak with your feet and wallet. If the match isn't what people want then they take their money elsewhere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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