Versa Max won't cycle

[DDustin]

I just finished the Brownells ProAm and spent a good part of it cycling my bolt manually. I refused to cycle slugs at all and every so often wouldn't cycle buck or bird. It cycled slugs fine a week ago but I only fired about 10. Same with buck and it's never had an issue with bird before.

Any idea what may be causing this?

Thanks a lot.

Dustin

[theKenny]

When did you last clean it?

During my first cleaning many many rounds ago I noticed one of the pistons was frozen from all the crud.

gun still cycled in that condition but i do clean more often now.

What ammo were you using?

Even the 1150 fiocchi slugs run fine for me.

[MarkCO]

I put 5K rounds through mine with no cleaning, and I know it will go more.

Two things are typical. 1. Oil or lube of the pistons (big no-no) or 2. Cracked gas cylinder.

Check these two to confirm or eliminate and let us know.

[Toyotafrank]

this may sound funny but when you hold the gun facing up and than point down do you hear a small rattle? If you dont the pistons are stuck. Never had an issue with ours and we run reduced recoil loads, but a guy we shoot with had same issue and we didnt hear the rattle once cleaned all was good

[JRicks]

Could you provide some details as to what was (and wasn't) happening?

[Dannybot]

Check the bolt pin. They seem not to be properly heat treated and get deformed. It could have gotten deformed enough, or developed a burr that could be hanging up in the receiver.

The bolt face on mine also kind of peened, or flattened out ever so slightly and it was rubbing on the top of the receiver, hanging up at the back of the stroke. So if you have that flattening, the bolt lugs could be getting hung up in the breech of the barrel.

Either of these can be fixed with a little filing and polishing.

Edited August 25, 2014 by Dannybot

[Moltke]

Has the gun ever worked? If not, call Remington for a warranty repair

[DDustin]

I'm on my phone so I'll try to answer everything.

It was last cleaned the day before the match but I checked slug and buck poi at the practice range and did a little skeet side event with it before using it in the match. So it was clean with about 30 rounds through it.

I lightly oiled the gas pistons but they are dry now. They also move freely back and forth.

It has always run everything without a hiccup and has o probably over 1k through it but only about 50 slugs and 20 buck.

Exactly what it's doing is it will fire but not eject the spent shell. I had to cycle the bolt manually to eject and chamber each round.

It did it every time with slugs, most of the time with buck and some times with bird.

I was running AA 1300fps 7 1/8th bird, Winchester 1oz rifled slugs, and Federal LE reduced recoil buck.

[MarkCO]

Degrease the chambers and pistons then try again.

[DDustin]

The pistons were already bone dry. I checked them and everything else after the 1st day of malfunctions (it was a 3 day match). I'll try to delube the bolt but it's no more or less lubed up than it's always been. I also check the arm in the rear of the bolt for cracking or anything binding as per Remington recommendations. Everything looked good there.

How do I inspect the gas block? What am I looking for? I didn't see any cracks or anything there.

Any other ideas?

Edited August 25, 2014 by DDustin

[Moltke]

Call

Remington

And tell them it ain't working

[DDustin]

I was on hold with Remington for about 45 min before I got disconnect 3 times in a row. The fourth time I got through after about 30 min and they suggested that and said they would need my shotgun for several months. It's my only match shotgun so I can't have it down for a few months so they can maybe fix it.

I was considering sending it to Benny Hill for POI adjustment and some other stuff but I wanted this worked out 1st.

[MarkCO]

The cylinders are welded, to the barrel. The few I saw with cracked welds, it was pretty obvious that the weld was cracked. Lube in the chambers forms a kind of tar, and even if the pistons come out dry, the cylinders can still be sticky with swelled carbon deposits.

[DDustin]

I will scrub the inside of the chambers with carbon cutter and completely degrease them and see if that makes a difference. I thought by degrease the chamber you meant the bolt and chamber. I don't understand though why there would be more of an issue with harder recoiling slugs and buck than lighter bird shot. wouldn't it be the other way around if it was a gas issue?

[MarkCO]

Gas volume, yes, but fouled or wet chambers, not necessarily.

[theKenny]

After you get it all cleaned up and take it to the range I'm wondering if you could try inducing the same issue?

bad mount, etc.

what size mag tube were you running?

My buddy who turned me on to the versamax just got a extended tube 13? maybe and with only 4or 6 shells it was doing what you describe. It was a match day so he just shot mine.

Usual tube (both of us) is 10 with stock spring and no issues.

[JRicks]

The cylinders are welded, to the barrel. The few I saw with cracked welds, it was pretty obvious that the weld was cracked. Lube in the chambers forms a kind of tar, and even if the pistons come out dry, the cylinders can still be sticky with swelled carbon deposits.

Nothing is welded to that barrel.

[DDustin]

I thought the gas chambers and the mag tube ring were welded? How are they attached?

I have the factory 10 round tube with a 2 round extension. I would agree that the mag spring could be it but the fired shell didnt seem to extract. It's almost acting like an under gassed rifle that cycles the bolt but not enough.

[darkvibe]

Did you cut the magazine spring to length? If it cycles lighter loads better than heavier recoiling loads your mag spring might be the issue.

If your mag spring is too weak it won't push the rounds onto the lifer under recoil.

[DDustin]

It has been but the shell was on the lifter and the spent shell hadn't ejected.

[StealthyBlagga]

Put a piece of modelling clay or masking tape over the back end of the charging handle slot, then shoot the gun and verify that the bolt is consistently cycling all the way to the back (i.e. how far back it indents the clay/tape).

If it is consistently cycling all the way, check your ejector and extractor as your problem could be as simple as not getting the spent hull out of the gun.

[DDustin]

That's a really good idea, I never though of that.

I wont be able to test for another week or so, any other thoughts on possible issues? I just scrubbed the gas chambers out and it really wasn't that bad. Of course I have no way of checking the actual gas ports because they're way in there, but the cleaner was dripping freely into the barrel.

[openclassterror]

If it is traveling fully to the rear, the lifter will try to lift the next round whether the empty is ejected or not, causing an open bolt jam. If the bolt is closed on the empty it is definitely NOT traveling fully back. Further supported by the manually cycled ejection during malfunction clearance. From the description it is short stroking for sure. Just need to ID the cause.

[JPeel]

The cylinders are welded, to the barrel. The few I saw with cracked welds, it was pretty obvious that the weld was cracked. Lube in the chambers forms a kind of tar, and even if the pistons come out dry, the cylinders can still be sticky with swelled carbon deposits.

Nothing is welded to that barrel.

Well, the gas chambers aren't just glued there or strapped on. Do tell, how are the chambers attached to the barrel? They don't appear to be machined in place.

[DDustin]

Could be brazed on.