10.2.1

[Ted Murphy]

Last question (for now)

10.21 Says that a competitor "who fires shots while any part of their body is touching the ground beyond a fault or charge line will receive 1 procedural penalty. However, if the competitor has gained a significant advantage while faulting, the competitor will be assessed 1 procedural penalty for each shot fired while faulting instead of a single penalty. No penalty is assessed if a competitor does not fire any shots while faulting a line.

Is there a guideline for what determines "significant advantage"?

Ted

[Hank Ellis]

One of the best descriptions / interpretations I've heard of this rule was a stage briefing at the Louisiana Section match.

The boxes we used were 2x4 frames. It was muddy and goopy for that match and it may have been the reason for the extended brief on faults.

"Standing in Box A, hands at sides, engage [snip]. Now if your foot is inside the box, your fine. If your foot is on the frame but a heel or toe is touching inside the box, your fine. If your foot is on the frame, but NOT touching the ground, one procedural. If your foot is touching anywhere outside the frame, one procedural per shot."

So if your big toe happens to sneak outside the fault line and you fire shots, one procedural. But if your entire size 10 (44 in the EU) goes over the line then there's a significant advantage and one procedural per shot applies.

[Ted Murphy]

That sounds fair enough. Thank you.

Ted

[diehli]

If your foot is on the frame, but NOT touching the ground, one procedural.

Huh? That ain't right. If you aren't touching the ground outside the box, how can you be faulting the line?

[mactiger]

One of the best descriptions / interpretations I've heard of this rule was a stage briefing at the Louisiana Section match.

The boxes we used were 2x4 frames. It was muddy and goopy for that match and it may have been the reason for the extended brief on faults.

"Standing in Box A, hands at sides, engage [snip]. Now if your foot is inside the box, your fine. If your foot is on the frame but a heel or toe is touching inside the box, your fine. If your foot is on the frame, but NOT touching the ground, one procedural. If your foot is touching anywhere outside the frame, one procedural per shot."

So if your big toe happens to sneak outside the fault line and you fire shots, one procedural. But if your entire size 10 (44 in the EU) goes over the line then there's a significant advantage and one procedural per shot applies.

Actually it may sound fair, but it's not correct. You must be touching the ground outside of a fault line to incur a penalty, as it states in 10.2.1. Merely touching (or even standing on) the fault line does not earn penalties while shooting. The fault line is not the penalty zone, it marks the boundary.

Significant advantage is a judgement call, but here are some examples:

If you fault a line and don't have to lean around a vision barrier to shoot targets, that's a significant advantage. Likewise, if you fault a line and it moves you significantly closer to the targets, or gives you a better angle or shooting position, that's a significant advantage. Again, it's a judgement call, but it's usually an easy call to make, and most "advantage" can be defined before the first shot is fired.

Merely stepping past a fault line, with no obvious gains from doing so, should not incur multiple (per shot) penalties.

Troy

[D.Hayden]

A followup on this rule discussion..

However, if the competitor has gained a significant advantage while faulting, the competitor will be assessed 1 procedural penalty for each shot fired

It's for shots fired, but if there is only 1 steel target (easiest example) does 10.1.2, make this a cap of 2 procedurals? Regardless of the number of shots fired?

[Shooter Grrl]

It's for shots fired, but if there is only 1 steel target (easiest example) does 10.1.2, make this a cap of 2 procedurals? Regardless of the number of shots fired?

Nope! 10.1.2 just states the VALUE of the procedural penalties.

However, check out 10.2.3! It does state that you "must not exceed the maximum number of scoring hits..."

So in your example, Joe Blow steps out from behind the barricade and fires a full mag at the lone popper - he only gets one procedural.

[schoonie]

Again, it's a judgement call, but it's usually an easy call to make, and most "advantage" can be defined before the first shot is fired.

Troy, I totally agree and would like to see the determination included in the stage briefings. This would eliminate any animosity felt between the shooter and the RO if the call was made, ie no surprises!

[Dream]

This gets back to the RO'S not knowing the rules.

I have Upset several Ro's that don't know the rules

and have trouble understaing that they are capable

of making Mistakes. It pays to take Ro classes even

if you have no intention of Ro'ing at major matches.

it pays to know the rules..

[JayWord]

Amen.

Jay

[SmittyFL]

Funny this thread came up recently. There was an RO at the Florida Open that didn't know the difference between in and out of a box. I think it was stage 1 but can't remember, I shot them out of order.

Anyway it was an in the box start with nothing to shoot. So I started as I normally do when blasting out of a box with my toes on the box and heels inside. The RO wouldn't start me, because my toes were touching the box therefore I was not "in" the box.

Loaded and ready to go, I didn't feel like arguing. Not that big of a deal anyway. Plus I didn't want to piss off the RO right before he's about to score my targets.

He seemed to be a nice enough guy as were all the RO's and staff at the match. Everything was well run. Just an example of some RO's not knowing the rules.