Versamax Competition Tactical 3-gun Review

[MarkCO]

Removing the inner spring is changing the force on the part that is hanging up, a band-aid if you will. With target loads, not an issue, but with slugs, hi-brass, it can cause some issues, like double feeds, and it does make loading ever so slightly stiffer. Better to fix the interface issue and leave the 2nd spring in IMHO.

[AirForce2]

Mark,

I don't quite understand how to tell if I have the interface/lifter issue or how to fix it. Can you illustrate or explain the interface issue a little more and how to fix the geometry of the lifter & address it. I mean are you saying some JB welb built up ledge under the trigger assy ledge where the lifter sits agains it or somewhere els? tks

Edited April 12, 2015 by AirForce2

[MarkCO]

Simple first step is to artificially keep the lifter higher (further up into the receiver) to test. You can use tape and or a popsicle stick glued to the front inside of the trigger guard and run some rounds through the gun. One of my 2 VMs had this issue, but I have fixed about a dozen more. If keeping the lifter higher, then a more permanent solution is warranted. The test will give you a measurement of sorts, then a set screw or some JB weld will do the trick. I initially tried the nylon tipped set screw, but that mashed out after about 5K rounds so I put some JB weld in.

[AirForce2]

Tks Mark, I've added a pic with the area in red where I plan to test, yes?

[MarkCO]

Yes.

[AirForce2]

OK, I didn't have any popsicle sticks, only otter pops, so I put a thin piece of plastic .060 inches thick (less thick than a popsicle stick) under the rear most portion of the lifter on top of the 1/8 inch ledge that sticks out on the front most portion of the trigger housing frame on top of the red line I drew in the prev pic. Both springs behind the shell stop & This caused the lifter to be to high behind the shells in the tube & covered 1/3 plus of the shell tube opening and no way a shell could kick out onto the lifter and also made it much worse in cycling. What am I missing, am I adding the height in the wrong place or are we talking only needing something .005-.015 inches thick?

I've also attached some pics "not during live fire" but similar to what it looks like during live fire. I did this by slow hand cycling just to show the bolt back and lifter/shell relation. There is on pic that shows just behind the shell on the rear portion of shells stop, a small shallow sharp ledge that I'm not sure if this serves a good or bad purpose and would line up with a metal piece on the side of the trigger housing. I reattached the pic of where I think to add the extra meat and the 2 contact points affected in yellow.

Edited April 17, 2015 by AirForce2

[MarkCO]

Yeah, nose of lifter about 1/8" below the shells. Take off material thickness until it works, then measure and make permanent.

[StealthyBlagga]

Did you try the new action spring I recommended?

[inertia]

Mark my VM took a dump on me last stage this weekend need to get back up quick. Failures to feed but I didnt have time to carefully diagnose the issue in the heat of the stage so took to racking or pushing bolt forward to get rounds to chamber. Some of each was needed for the roughly half dozen times it failed on that stage. Extracted every time though. Federal 7 1/2 target loads, C rums lifter (hanging pretty low), Nordic Tube and spring to 12". Check off with me the plan for this week and anything I am not thinking of? Raise that droopy lifter up a little, replace tube spring again just in case a little too short, smooth edges on chamber a little, anything else?

[MarkCO]

You could go run a box of Federal Premium, Win AA or Rem STS through it and see if that fixes the problems. If it does, then chamber chamfer and alignment tuning of the lifter is in order. If it does not, then the lifter raise is the first step.

[AirForce2]

You need to try slowish hand cycling w dummy rounds if not able to range duplicate & inspect (not the all alum red ones) and see if you can make it jam the same. I've found I can slow cycle dummies and get it to happen. I highly doubt a 12 inch Nordic spg past the tube is your issue nor mine, nor is my recoil stock spring the issue for I have plenty of ooomph there was tested. When it jams is the bolt all way open/back and shell flat/level on rear of lifter or shell pointed up towards chamber.

With the smaller inner shell stop spring out of the gun, I shot 50 ea of herters low recoil #8 at 1050 fps and win low recoil 50 ea at 1100 fps the other day and some 7.5's at 1200 fps w/10 inch past tube rem fact shell tube spg. I will run again tomorrow again w/both shell stop springs in, same loads and see. I'm still toying w/lifter height later tonight to see if any diff during hand cycle and will test tomorrow as well. I think my rear shell stop was Not going into the receiver out of the way enough and shaved a little off rear most flat of shell stop that swings into receiver groove also. The only reason i did this is because each time it jams hand cycle, pushing the bolt release cleared it vs pushing up lifter or forward or boltIt does catch less during hand cycle now and will see if lifter raise helps.

Update: I messed with both of my trigger assy's tonight (have 2 identical w/C-rums extd lifters). I tried using strips of electrical tape on the front most ledge on trigger assy's under the rearmost portion of the lifter and had little to no noticeable gain in functioning and got up to 3 strips of tape stacked (appx .020 to .025 inches thick. One thing that was noticeable was the extra lifter height made the shells not kick rearward on the lifter and left a 3/4 inch gap between rear of dummy round to the rear of the lifter compared to before. I also seemed to have more pressure pulling the bolt rearward to eject from chamber when a shell was on the lifter. I'm kinda perplexed. My bolt almost won't catch at all riding slow with no shells in the gun, but with dummies, I can still feel the catch point just as bolt goes forward (as if the extra weight of a shell & lifter causes more of a catch feel and it always goes forward by pushing the bolt release. I may take one of my spare lifter/trig assy's and try to build up the ledge under rear of lifter to see if it helps, but for now I'm not feeling it. I polished off rear face of shell stop so it seats easier into the receiver, polished the front to back side bottom face of bolt that activates the lifter, and changed lifter height and still don't feel like I've got it licked with both springs in the shell stop.

Edited April 22, 2015 by AirForce2

[AirForce2]

I fired 60 RDS of 1oz- 1 1/8 oz 1050 fps thru 1200 fps stuff w/40 RDS being lower recoil & 10 low recoil slugs and both springs behind the shell stop wed and no jams. I also had the Nordic tube spring in cut 11 inches past the tube end. I will do another 50-60 rds on Mon. I did not change lifter height although I think its a little high. I won't be able to mod/test the spare trig asst/lifter until later next week and using orig one for now

Edited April 25, 2015 by AirForce2

[JRicks]

OK, I didn't have any popsicle sticks, only otter pops, so I put a thin piece of plastic .060 inches thick (less thick than a popsicle stick) under the rear most portion of the lifter on top of the 1/8 inch ledge that sticks out on the front most portion of the trigger housing frame on top of the red line I drew in the prev pic. Both springs behind the shell stop & This caused the lifter to be to high behind the shells in the tube & covered 1/3 plus of the shell tube opening and no way a shell could kick out onto the lifter and also made it much worse in cycling. What am I missing, am I adding the height in the wrong place or are we talking only needing something .005-.015 inches thick?

I've also attached some pics "not during live fire" but similar to what it looks like during live fire. I did this by slow hand cycling just to show the bolt back and lifter/shell relation. There is on pic that shows just behind the shell on the rear portion of shells stop, a small shallow sharp ledge that I'm not sure if this serves a good or bad purpose and would line up with a metal piece on the side of the trigger housing. I reattached the pic of where I think to add the extra meat and the 2 contact points affected in yellow.

That ledge does serve a purpose. I'd remove the inner latch spring, polish the latch surface, and make sure you have a mag spring long enough the do the job.

[inertia]

You could go run a box of Federal Premium, Win AA or Rem STS through it and see if that fixes the problems. If it does, then chamber chamfer and alignment tuning of the lifter is in order. If it does not, then the lifter raise is the first step.

The "all of the above" approach seems to have worked. Cleaned up the edge of the chamber, tuned that lifter a little with the dremmel to improve center alignment and a little JB to raise it up. Result 100 rounds mixed of cheapest crap I had and no failures.

[AirForce2]

Disassembled & Cleaned the entire gun including bolt, pistons etc.

Shooting the other day and 50 rds of RIO 1200 fps, 7.5 or 8 shot blue box stuff and had 4 or 5 jams because the empty shell did not extract but halfway or didn't come out of the chamber at all & also caused ensuing feed jams. This was odd since I've not had any extraction related jams at all. Looked at the shells and noticed a pronounced hump right at the brass rim (where the extractor would hook & about as long as the rotating extractor groove area in the barrel. I haven't done any work to this area of chamber since initial "opening up the chamber & smoothing the extractor cutout in the barrel months ago". I think the brass blowing out by the extractor cut was causing the extractor to come off.

I fired 75 rds the next day of herters 1050 fps 1oz low recoil, some hert's 1 1/8 oz 1200 & 1250 fps, & some hert's 1200 fps 1 1/4 oz spreader loads & 8 low recoil slugs the next day and no jams. The bulge on the herters ammo was much less that the RIO stuff. Lesson learned (don't polish the chamber edge inside around the extractor cut to much or the weaker brass or high power stuff could bulge & cause extractor to let go).

My versa comp still prints quite poorly with slugs w/group appx 10-12 inches at 100 & even at 25 yds can tell the fliers not really left or right, up/down etc. I've now come to the best guess that it's looseness/or fit in the whole barrel, foregrip, receiver tightness section causing the repeatability issues. I have the gun really tight and multiple brands of slugs and LM & IC cyl chokes, honed forcing cone (again) no worse or better. Some rounds hit where they should and others just fly. I put on the spare versa sportsmans foregrip on and it fits much different & tighter than my comp model foregrip. I'm running both springs behind the shell stop, 11 inch past tube end w/Nordic spring. In short the gun seems to be malfunction free for past 125 rds of Herters & Win ammo and only had issues with the RIO and was extraction related.

For those that want opt for locking case I've attached pics

Have any versa owners fixed grouping issues by tightening up fit of items forward of the receiver? The guys at Remington told me a versa max sportsmans foregrip would fit the versa comp model.

I'm on squad 6 B. Armour & CZ Shirt at the Shooters Shotgun Challenge, see ya there & good luck.

Update: I put on the new foregrip sportsmans model which does fit much snugger. Spent last night recontouring the grip for load 2/4's, redrilled for the Carbon Arms oh shit ran it dry and need one more shot shell carrier. The foregrip that came on my versa comp has a lot of play but seems didn't impact accuracy as long as the tube nut is tight, gun just hates certain slugs. At 100 yds with Rio low recoil slugs still got a 12 inch group (6 inches left & 6 inches right of center target w/few center) w/LM briley ext choke. Fed truball low recoil & herters 1400 fps no gain either & prev no noticeable help using a flush rem LM or tru bore IC ext choke that came with versa. I double checked myself by shooting a 7 inch or so group from my CZ Accu Shadow at 100 yds.

I had just got in from midway some of the fiochi 1oz, 1200 slugs that seem popular, low recoil (yellow box) and some fiochi 7/8 oz low recoil, 1250-1300 fps slugs and expected no real change. The fiochi's "AAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH" those and poof, 4-5 inch group instantly. Guess my versa just dislikes the cheaper easy to get stuff. Kinda stinks, cause I've struggled to find any fiochi low recoil slugs locally, but at least I have confidence the gun can shoot slugs. I also took the opportunity to swap out the Rem hammer & extractor for benelli parts before shooting today. Swapping the extractor was a pain in the a_ _, because the hole to knock the pin out seems good but the pin from ones side was off set in the hole and could only be driven out one direction and seemed offset in the hole on that side and the bottom side was easy to drive the pin in, but driving the small roll pin out the other side was a pain due to the guide hole didn't match the pin coming thru and had to use a small punch on the pin edge to drive it back out. I shot another mixed bag of 70 shells today and still no malfunctions.

Edited May 9, 2015 by AirForce2

[AirForce2]

Well, the versa comp shot appx 230 rounds and zero gun malfunctions of any sort at the Shooters Source Shotgun Challenge. I had a plenty myself and should have shot a few local shotgun stages in the last year which hurt my scores a lot, but at least my equipment could not be blamed for anything.

[Bowman]

Has Remington made any significant improvements since 2014? Supposedly they were going to lengthen the lifter. I'm thinking about getting one and wondering if I would still need to do most of the modifications described in this thread. Thanks in advance for the feedback.

[MarkCO]

No changes I have seen.

[Iowashooter]

Has Remington made any significant improvements since 2014? Supposedly they were going to lengthen the lifter. I'm thinking about getting one and wondering if I would still need to do most of the modifications described in this thread. Thanks in advance for the feedback.

I bought one of the first lot that was released. The day they released them for shipping and I was in Cabela's in Owatonna, MN a few weeks back and the had one on the shelf and it was still I'm the same configuration I got mine in. I have been extremely happy with mine and it has never let me down. The modifications that I did were to file the back of the carrier to allow more clearance for loading shells so that it won't bind up. I ran it with the factory lifter until last month when I ordered a replacement welded lifter from C'Rums. It loads a little easier with that. I also bent the shell catch back slightly and filed a small radius in it to provide less loading resistance. The only port work I did was to move the port forward slightly. I also added a +4 Nordic extension for 12 round capacity. Other than that I really haven't messed with it. I do feel it is a great gun and a pretty good value. Is it completely ready out of the box, no but you could spend 30 minutes with a file and some wet dry sandpaper and it would do great. If I were in the market to buy a shotgun again I would still buy this and I have shot m2's and 1301's and I also own a Stoeger for backup. The only shotgun that intrigues me is the browning A5 at this point and unless I can get some quality time in on one to see if I like it I will be sticking with the versamax. I can provide pictures of my mods upon request.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

Edited July 20, 2015 by Iowashooter

[Bowman]

Has Remington made any significant improvements since 2014? Supposedly they were going to lengthen the lifter. I'm thinking about getting one and wondering if I would still need to do most of the modifications described in this thread. Thanks in advance for the feedback.

I bought one of the first lot that was released. The day they released them for shipping and I was in Cabela's in Owatonna, MN a few weeks back and the had one on the shelf and it was still I'm the same configuration I got mine in. I have been extremely happy with mine and it has never let me down. The modifications that I did were to file the back of the carrier to allow more clearance for loading shells so that it won't bind up. I ran it with the factory lifter until last month when I ordered a replacement welded lifter from C'Rums. It loads a little easier with that. I also bent the shell catch back slightly and filed a small radius in it to provide less loading resistance. The only port work I did was to move the port forward slightly. I also added a +4 Nordic extension for 12 round capacity. Other than that I really haven't messed with it. I do feel it is a great gun and a pretty good value. Is it completely ready out of the box, no but you could spend 30 minutes with a file and some wet dry sandpaper and it would do great. If I were in the market to buy a shotgun again I would still buy this and I have shot m2's and 1301's and I also own a Stoeger for backup. The only shotgun that intrigues me is the browning A5 at this point and unless I can get some quality time in on one to see if I like it I will be sticking with the versamax. I can provide pictures of my mods upon request.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

Thanks for the information!

Edited July 20, 2015 by Bowman

[AirForce2]

If your just wanting a shooting gun it may be just 30 min and if you've worked on shotguns a lot maybe only a few hours extra. My gun has had many, many hours into it, but that's because I've only worked on 2 shotguns ever. My shotgun and all the mods listed took 30+ hours of work I'd guess, but a intermediate or gunsmith would take lots less with the knowledge & tools. I did get the benefit of learning how the guns works and some of the fixes mostly on my own which puts risk as well as reward into it and it has lots of time and custom features now of which some were cosmetic and some I know would help with speed, fit, and function. Depends if you want a work of art and a working gun or just a working gun as to how much time or money to put into it. I'd say if I'd paid someone to do all this work I did, it would be $500+ bucks easy and I wouldn't have any knowledge to tweek or fix issues. I feel confident my future versamax guns would be even better and faster if I was to do them again.

Edited July 23, 2015 by AirForce2

[AirForce2]

Let me summarize items in my opinion that fall into categories of needed to fix or I think help function, speed, accuracy, or cosmetic.

-shell stop--had to polish and contour forward most corners and section that ride agains shells so loading shells wasn't a strain and smoother. Also polished rear portion of shell stop towards stock that tilt inwards into the receiver in case that was causing minor bolt catch point during cycling. I did not increase the U shaped cuts 1/3 from front of shell stop, only slight polishing of the in & outside of the grooves to remove sharp edges. The U cuts allow the shell stop a flex point during loading and cycling so be careful, it is a point where the shell stop could & will likely crack/fail.

-barrel--flex hone the forcing cone at the 3-5 inch section from rear of the barrel rough edges to reduce excessive lead fouling buildup from pellets & slugs & may increase accuracy.

--polish & slight chamfer the barrel /shell entry & extractor groove to help with shells that may jam on the sharp edges

--slug testing to find a slug that would print reasonably well ie...3-5 inch group w/open sights at 100 yds (or just front sight if you prefer) My versa comp likes fiochi 3/4 & 1oz & dislikes rio & federal truball slugs. If you can't print a sub 6 inch at 100 yds with your slugs with open sights, either something is wrong with you, your platform, your ammo, choke, sights, or combination.

-lifter--It was like a bear trap and had to be extended. I actually don't understand why all shotgun lifters are not built like the Crums or 3 gun modded one already? A must for safe, fast, pain free loading.

-stock--Reduced the stock and replaced recoild pad w/limbsaver low profile pad for appx 13 inch LOP. I prefer a more snug, shorter length of pull which I think shorter arm, stocky build guys/gals would like & it helped me in shouldering the gun smoother and faster. I would like to see a less "sticky" type of rubber on the rear of recoild pad to slide the pad onto the shoulder, but few exist that are less than 1 inch thick.

-stippled grip areas of the stock & foregrip. A very functional grippy addition and if you want the best looks & feel, use a sharp pointed soldering iron tip. Painstaking 2-3 hrs of work, but fantastic grip and looks. Just have to sand down after solder stipple to remove rough edges. The rubber grips on the versa are crap.

-contour the rear bottom & sides so the foregrip tappers down to almost nothing for smoother dual and quad loads or combo of cutting off sections, but still file/contour the foregrip rear portions so your hand slides over the foregrip smoothly during reloads.

-other areas inside the chamber & gun were polished for smooth functioning on all sharp edges.

-Carbon Arms, Match Saver, or home made single round carrier mounted on the side of rear portion of foregrip to hold 1 or 2 shells for running dry and needed 1 more round to load into empty chamber vs fishing for one off your belt holder.

-Front & rear sights--There are options if you like an adj rear and taller or skinnier front w/fiber optics or can use the ones on the gun are ok. Suggest clear epoxy over/around the fiber optics so they don't break and fall right out. Also have heard & seen some use pistol rear sights.

-Carbon Arms tube extensions +2 thru + 6. They are lightweight and not carbon

-Open up the sides & front loading port area. It's ok from the factory, but far from ideal. I also suggest grinding down, then polishing the section just forward of the trigger guard of the trigger assy to create a funnel area that allows dual/quad load shells to lay flatter as you feed into the tube. Keep the same angle on the front load port area and push it forward just shy of the steel tube.

-polish down the 10, 2, 4, 8 o'clock sections of the shell loading tube where it connects to the receiver section so the shells are not jumping the little humps feeding from tube onto the lifter and for loading shells smoother.

-Nordic spring--Nordics seem much stiffer than most factory shell tube springs, so I think 14 inches past the end of your tube end is more than enough and excessive unless you need the extra oooomph because the gun runs rough and not smooth.

Edited July 26, 2015 by AirForce2

[GetAwayDriva]

So it is not just my rotten luck to have forcing cone areas that look like they were cut by a four year old using a chipping hammer. I just bought a replacement barrel for my VM and it had a marginally better forcing cone in that it wasn't all gouged and chipped, just rough as can be.... I looked down a friend's Benelux barrel and the whole thing shone like a mirror. Remington might want to work on their quality control!

[SERVED_USMC]

I was very seriously considering replacing my M2 with a VM for recoil reduction as the main deciding factor. After an hour of reading through all the VM "trouble" threads, I may have changed my mind.

[MarkCO]

If you want a little less recoil, try an M3000. A bit heavier than the M2 and with a KickEze pad, softer than an M2.