kcobean Posted May 29, 2014 Share Posted May 29, 2014 Let's say you're at a match and your squad is moving between stages. As you walk into the bay where your next stage is located, one of the shooters in your squad takes his whole outer belt assembly, holster and gun included, off his waist and sets it on a table behind a stage to re-tuck his shirt or something. Many of the shooters in your squad (as in almost all of them) are ROs, so nobody is formally designated to the task and there is no shooting going on in your bay/squad at the time. You're not the only one to see this, but you speak up and inform the shooter that what he's done constitutes a DQ. Several of the folks with you say things like "yeah, that would be a DQ. It's a good thing nobody saw you". He quietly waits for you to either DQ him or, as the other shooters in your squad that have not so subtly hinted, give him a pass. Moral gut check....what do you do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitedog Posted May 29, 2014 Share Posted May 29, 2014 "You know you just DQ'd yerself, right?" Then you realize what kind of man he is.... I've done it when someone did same thing to go to rest room. To the man's credit he did DQ him self. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted May 29, 2014 Share Posted May 29, 2014 First, The guys I shoot with are mostly RO's as well. As soon as we heard the tear of velcro somebody would have stopped him from taking it off. Or at least tried to. If we didn't succeed in stopping him we would certainly compel him to report himself to match staff. The moral gut check would not be on me. It would be on him to do the right thing once he is aware he did something wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakobi Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 (edited) Are you an RO? If so, DQ him. If he constests he can take it up with the MD. If you're not an RO and none of the RO's there want to do anything about it report it to the RM/MD. If nobody does anything, you now know the caliber of the people you are shooting with. A seasoned shooter at the clubs I shoot at would have been DQd on the spot if they didn't DQ themselves. Also at my clubs, excepting an active shooter/RO/Score Keeper, anyone that's an RO can DQ anyone if they see a safety violation. -Jake Edited May 30, 2014 by Jakobi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aztecdriver Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 First, The guys I shoot with are mostly RO's as well. As soon as we heard the tear of velcro somebody would have stopped him from taking it off. Or at least tried to. If we didn't succeed in stopping him we would certainly compel him to report himself to match staff. The moral gut check would not be on me. It would be on him to do the right thing once he is aware he did something wrong. ^^^this. It's like hearing a slide racking in a direction it really shouldn't . If he doesn't do it on his own, do it yourself - and then you know. SUCKS, but I'd rather do it that way... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmca Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 When I first started shooting, I did something I considered a DQable offense. I reported myself to the RO, who then talked to the RM. The RM wouldn't let me DQ myself because neither he nor the RO had seen it. Just sayin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 When I first started shooting, I did something I considered a DQable offense. I reported myself to the RO, who then talked to the RM. The RM wouldn't let me DQ myself because neither he nor the RO had seen it. Just sayin But you still did the right thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmca Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 My point is, to the question asked in the OP, since neither the RO or RM saw the infraction, no DQ would be allowed. Everyone on the squad knew the offender had done something wrong, but there's nothing they could do about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 Why is this so unsafe that it should be a dq? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 Unsafe or not it's against the rules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LilBunniFuFu Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 Why is this so unsafe that it should be a dq? Unsafe or not it's against the rules Specifically 5.2.1 Carry and Storage – Except when within the boundaries of a safety area, or when under the supervision and direct command of a Range Officer, competitors must carry their handguns unloaded in a gun case, gun bag or in a holster securely attached to a belt on their person (see Rule 10.5.1). A competitor who, while not at a safety area or under RO supervision, removes their holster or their equipment belt with their handgun still in the holster, shall be considered to be in violation of Rule 5.2.1 and subject to disqualification from the match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 Understood that it's against the rules, but why is it against the rules? Most other dq-able offenses seem to be pretty obviously unsafe. I'm not so sure about this one. Was there a history of people wandering around leaving their guns unattended in the past? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LilBunniFuFu Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 You can do it in the safe area or with an RO but not elsewhere. You are still handling the gun even if it is still in the holster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 You can do it in the safe area or with an RO but not elsewhere. You are still handling the gun even if it is still in the holster. I know what the rule says. I just don't know why it says that. You are still handling a bagged gun even if it is in a bag too. What's the difference between handling a bagged gun and handling a holstered gun? Anyone old enough to know the history behind this rule? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxshooter Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 Ask John Amidon why it is a rule. His reply will probably be because the BOD voted and adopted it as a rule. Whether it seems reasonable or not it is a rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 Moto I hear you. I agree a holstered gun is considered inert. Maybe the rule is there to keep everybody from taking their guns on and off all match long and helping prevent guns falling out of holsters and getting picked up causing DQ's or keeping RO's too busy picking them up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmca Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 I would guess, it probably has to do with the "bikini" style race holster. It could be difficult to tell if it's in its holster? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 kmca: the OP said that basically everyone on the squad was an RO and that several saw him do it so it should be a DQable offense since an RO witnessed it ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
remoandiris Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 It was not against the rules until a few years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
remoandiris Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 kmca: the OP said that basically everyone on the squad was an RO and that several saw him do it so it should be a DQable offense since an RO witnessed it ... Did the person with the timer or clipboard see it? No. Just because someone has an RO certification, that doesn't make them match staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmca Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 (edited) kmca: the OP said that basically everyone on the squad was an RO and that several saw him do it so it should be a DQable offense since an RO witnessed it ... They may have been certified RO's, but in this case, they were just fellow competitors, not an official RO. Opps, I guess I type too slow Edited May 30, 2014 by kmca Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 I would guess, it probably has to do with the "bikini" style race holster. It could be difficult to tell if it's in its holster? Yeah, good point. I was thinking more from the standpoint of a traditional holster. At any rate, it's not that hard to find a safe table or someone to RO you in an empty bay. At a local match it seems like it might not be a bad idea to rely on a technicality (RO didn't actually see it), and use the opportunity to educate everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadeslade Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 (edited) Don't bring these up on a forum. Edited May 31, 2014 by Jadeslade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kcobean Posted May 31, 2014 Author Share Posted May 31, 2014 Don't bring these up on a forum. I was waiting for someone to say this. Why not exactly? It was a question about what you do if you are a certified RO but aren't acting as an RO at the moment and in fact nobody is because you're just walking between stages. The same could be asked of witnessing weapons handling at a vehicle, etc. It was an honest question, I'm not trying to stir a pot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 You can do it in the safe area or with an RO but not elsewhere. You are still handling the gun even if it is still in the holster. I know what the rule says. I just don't know why it says that. You are still handling a bagged gun even if it is in a bag too. What's the difference between handling a bagged gun and handling a holstered gun? Anyone old enough to know the history behind this rule? I think it was a response to what was discussed in this thread: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=9429&p=109089 (Boy, there are some posters who have not been around for a long time in that thread!) Later, Chuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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