match checking ammo for power factor

[Sarge]

Hell of a lot easier just to load them up to 10 over required PF.

[sperman]

I've been to several level 2 matches that did not chrono.

so have I. sometimes just the threat of it keeps people honest.

Sorry, had to laugh at the irony of such a post by a guy with the screen name of Sandbagger123.

Cheaters gonna cheat, those with integrity do so regardless of the "threat".

Yep and a few will get caught because they have 3 methods of collecting your ammo. They will collect 8 at the first stage and then:

1. Shoot the ammo collected.

2. Shoot ammo that you have in your ammo bag when you arrive at the station.

3. Grab a mag off your belt and shoot what is in it.

So anyone that tries to cheat the system by handing in hotter loads or slightly heavier bullets with the initial collection still will get caught if they use either method 2 or 3. I have seen stations where they used all 3.

I've never seen anything except method 1 used.

[BillD]

You mean my little box marked "Chrono ammo" won't work?

[MarkCO]

I sent a competitor back to chrono with a magazine of ammo they had on their belt due to some inconsistencies I witnessed, but other than that, I have never seen anything except the ammo provided by the shooter be checked.

[BillD]

I've been asked on the first stage for chrono ammo from my mags on my belt.

Of course, I'm always trying to get my loads under 180PF so it usually doesn't affect me.

[pkm]

I am always afraid of going minor and as a result haven't been under 178 yet. On a slightly different topic last year at Nationals I had a failure to go into battery and thus only had 6 rounds to be shot and since I load pretty warm it wasn't an issue for me. What if it was? Can that round be replaced? What if you have a squib, since that round was "fired" does it hurt you in the average?

[Sarge]

I am always afraid of going minor and as a result haven't been under 178 yet. On a slightly different topic last year at Nationals I had a failure to go into battery and thus only had 6 rounds to be shot and since I load pretty warm it wasn't an issue for me. What if it was? Can that round be replaced? What if you have a squib, since that round was "fired" does it hurt you in the average?

I just can't imagine a scenario where a chrono operator would give you "0" for a velocity for that round. Heck yes that would hurt your average! LOL Seems they would ask for a replacement round for anything defective.

[MarkCO]

I don't see anywhere in the rules to provide an alibi on a squib or defective round. Seems that the 8 rounds gives a margin of error that benefits the competitor quite nicely. 7 can be fired, so even if you had a squib and one that would not chamber, you still can have the highest 3 of 5 left used for your average.

[Poppa Bear]

I don't see anywhere in the rules to provide an alibi on a squib or defective round. Seems that the 8 rounds gives a margin of error that benefits the competitor quite nicely. 7 can be fired, so even if you had a squib and one that would not chamber, you still can have the highest 3 of 5 left used for your average.

If you have a squib and a round that fails to chamber at chrono and you will likely be told to pull all your ammo as unsafe.

Being as part of Chrono is a magazine and gun check, everyone is required to have at least one empty magazine. If you are shooting Lim/ L10/ Open you are required to have ALL magazines empty for the Mag Gauge. I have seen the chrono RO request a full mag off the shooters belt to shoot. I have seen the RO request the mag be loaded with rounds from the shooters ammo supply. I most commonly have seen the RO order the shooter to load up 6 of the initial rounds collected and to then place the magazine on the table next to the gun.

I saw one Open shooter go minor because the 124 grain bullets he ordered turned out to be 115 grains when shipped. He failed to weight them himself and discovered their true weight at the match. He was not happy because he was using a 124 load rather than his 115 grain load.

[Sarge]

I don't see anywhere in the rules to provide an alibi on a squib or defective round. Seems that the 8 rounds gives a margin of error that benefits the competitor quite nicely. 7 can be fired, so even if you had a squib and one that would not chamber, you still can have the highest 3 of 5 left used for your average.

. If you are shooting Lim/ L10/ Open you are required to have ALL magazines empty for the Mag Gauge. I have seen the chrono RO request a full mag off the shooters belt to shoot. I have seen the RO request the mag be loaded with rounds from the shooters ammo supply. I most commonly have seen the RO order the shooter to load up 6 of the initial rounds collected and to then place the magazine on the table next to the gun. And I have never witnessed any of this. While it's possible, it's not common by any means.

I saw one Open shooter go minor because the 124 grain bullets he ordered turned out to be 115 grains when shipped. He failed to weight them himself and discovered their true weight at the match. He was not happy because he was using a 124 load rather than his 115 grain load. I can't imagine not being able to tell the difference when shooting those! If that happens you deserve every lash of the whip!

[Poppa Bear]

A bit of quick math said that a 170 PF velocity using 124's is still 157 PF with a 115. This is from a couple of years ago, but memory serves that he checked the loads velocity prior to the match but not the bullets weight. I think he was maddest at himself the most for assuming the bullets weight.

[sperman]

If you are shooting Lim/ L10/ Open you are required to have ALL magazines empty for the Mag Gauge.

Required? I don't see that in the rulebook. I rarely see mags checked, but if they are, it is only the mag the competitor hands the official.

[SilverBolt]

At Area-1 this year at Stage #1 the RO was randomly checking mags for length. He would pick up the mag dropped during reload and gauge them. The did not check mag length at the chrono station.

[BillD]

I've got a couple of Rescomp tube mags that hold 22. I've worn them to chrono but never given them that mag. I've only had mags checked once when a not too pleasant fellow running chrono informed me that SNL basepads should be Always Not Legal. It seems the back of the magazine wasn't laying flush with the mag gauge. And he wasn't happy about it. I asked him how many SNL basebads there might be at this state match. He didn't get any happier.

[Poppa Bear]

The ones I have been involved with checked them all. I had 2 that I was not using that were not legal in the bottom of my bag and was almost bumped to Open.

[BillD]

The ones I have been involved with checked them all. I had 2 that I was not using that were not legal in the bottom of my bag and was almost bumped to Open.

Really!

I've been to several Area matches, a National (discounting SS Nats, natch) and a ton of state matches. I've never seen them checking ALL mags.

[Rob01]

Hell of a lot easier just to load them up to 10 over required PF.

That's what I do. Mine are like 175-178 PF.

[Parallax3D]

If you are shooting Lim/ L10/ Open you are required to have ALL magazines empty for the Mag Gauge.

If you're shooting Open, only your big-stick needs to be gauged. (A 140mm mag is definitely less than the 170mm Open limit. No need to check them.)

Every time they gauged mine, it was done with a full mag, and still passed. If it didn't pass when loaded, you could unload it and make them check it again, since the rules do not say the mag has to be loaded or unloaded.

[Round_Gun_Shooter]

If you are shooting Lim/ L10/ Open you are required to have ALL magazines empty for the Mag Gauge.

If you're shooting Open, only your big-stick needs to be gauged. (A 140mm mag is definitely less than the 170mm Open limit. No need to check them.)

Every time they gauged mine, it was done with a full mag, and still passed. If it didn't pass when loaded, you could unload it and make them check it again, since the rules do not say the mag has to be loaded or unloaded.

Procedure allows depressing the follower to make sure mag fits. This tells me they expect the mag to be empty. I did Chrono at A7 last year. We checked big sticks and mags from the belt rather than what we were handed. We found mags that did not fit the gauge. One shooter requested his mags be put into the gauge from the side. They are that close and do fit the gauge but only inserted from the side.

We also chose ammo at random from either belt or ammo boxes. Several people were surprised and several went minor by a great deal. Accident? I would like to think so.

Bullet weights were erratic on some factory ammo causing factory ammo to be very close on PF.

I will do A7 Chrono again this year on staff day only since I am not shooting much this year but it was an experience and I learned a lot. I may continue to volunteer for it in order to keep learning. I got to shoot some real nice guns too

[ktm300]

Had a bit of a scare at SC Section match last weekend. I need 917 to make major and when I shoot my stuff over my chrono I am normally running 935 - 940 and they tend to be very consistent. The last two majors I shot the spread between the 3 they shot was less than 2 fps.

The first one out of the gun at SC was 905 and I almost had heart failure. #2 & #3 were back to normal at 935 so it worked out to a 166 pf but...................