Tokarev Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 Interesting stuff stolen from the Gabe Suarez website... THE RELOADS Reloading the semi automatic pistol is one of those things that divide a room to differing warring sects almost as much as any talk of politics, religion, or redheads. Like anything else, it’s a matter of perspective and wording. The two basic types of reloads are the Tactical Reload (Proactive) and the Speed Load (Reactive). There are lots of different names for these two types and thus confusion reigns. Generally, a “tactical reload” describes a reload done with intentional action of the shooter. The “speed load” on the other hand, is reactive in nature. The confusion comes with the names. One Grasshopper will say something like "All reloads are emergency reloads", thereby tossing a clump of mud into the pristine waters. Another will say something like, "All gunfights are tactical, thus all reloads done in a fight are tactical reloads". We could go on until the blood pressure makes you swear off of Starbucks for a year! Bottom line - Our pistols have a finite ammo capacity. We may have to use every single one of those rounds to win the fight. This may leave us with a partially depleted magazine, or with an empty gun. Perspective Check - If there is one round left in your gun, and you have one adversary left, what should you be thinking of? Yes, you should shoot him and not be worrying about reloading. The idea that you are somehow less of a man because you allow your slide to lock back on an empty chamber is one of those ridiculous ideas that is promulgated by those who think the Model T Ford is still viable 21st century Transportation. Shoot what you need to shoot to win the fight. If that's three shots - great! If it's fifteen shots, then great too! Often, the amount of shooting needed is not in our hands. So how about those reloads? There are two conceptual reloading reasons. 1). You find yourself mid-fight with a slide locked back on an empty gun. You are reloading by reaction, and your enemy is still trying to kill you so STEP ON IT!!! 2). You find yourself between adversaries, but still in the fight. Realizing your ammo capacity is low (you’ll know whether you are in the top half or bottom half of the magazine….usually). If you have a point of cover available, you’re probably behind it. Being by yourself, you may want to keep the partial magazine in the gun in the event the next clash requires more ammo than average. 3). You win the fight (it seems), and your enemy is bleeding at your feet (it appears), and there are no other targets (That you can see). And its time to leave cover to – a). Run To Your Car and Split The Scene . Get To The Phone c). Check on Family members d). Anything else I haven't thought of. Your gun is partially empty. It has been depleted by the number of shots that it took to down your man. Do you take the time to recharge it to full capacity (while you can), or hope that you still have enough to win any other fights that might come up in the next few seconds? Well of course you reload! No one wants to go to a fight half loaded! The problem with the understanding of these concepts has been by the misuse of the term "Lull". One writer said you reload during a lull. Most people don't know what that is. What he meant to say is that you reload when it looks like the fight is over and there are no more targets to shoot. So using Suarez International terminology, there is a Proactive Reload - or a reload that replaces a partially depleted magazine for a full one when it looks like the fight is over (but you are not sure), or when you have opportunity during clashes in the middle of the fight . Then there is the Reactive Reload - which takes place when you have the dubious honor to have fired the last round in your gun and are now facing your enemy with an empty gun! So there you have it. On all your reload training, consider this. When doing a Reactive Reload, be sure you practice it on the move. All reactive manipulations should be done on the move, and not standing still on the range. Move! Secondly, when doing this reload, use the slide and not the slide release lever to release the slide and go back into battery. Gross motor monkey skills win out over nimble fingered magic tricks every time. Our methods involve a proactive exchange of magazines (partial one for a full one). Often called a "Reload With retention" by the IDPA crowd, this method takes into consideration stress, injury, and extreme environmetal factors. Its not timed as the "Tactical reload" is timed as part of a scored test as it is at certain schools. There is no need to do this as the event itself will make you move swiftly through it without the artificial timer-equipped rangemaster breathing down your neck. Its the same concept that you'd use if working with a carbine. Old magazine comes out of gun and goes in pocket. New magazine comes out of pouch and goes in gun. Period. Keep it simple. Test it in force on force. And make sure it works well for you when you are at your worst. Gabe Suarez Suarez International USA, Inc. http://www.suarezinternational.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- SUAREZ INTERNATIONAL, INC. 303 EAST GURLEY STREET, SUITE 461 PRESCOTT, AZ 86301 Office 928.776.4492 Fax 928.776.8218 Mobile 928.308.1512 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sestock Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 But IDPA is a game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Orr Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 Gabe Suarez during an interview with Paladin Press Paladin: What do you consider to be the greatest threat to freedom in America today? GS: The desire for the illusion of safety. Lots of truth in this statement! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokarev Posted December 30, 2004 Author Share Posted December 30, 2004 But IDPA is a game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Perez Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 If I shoot 4 rds from an initial payload of 16 (G22 w15+1) - do I still need to reload? MP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Linch Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 If I shoot 4 rds from an initial payload of 16 (G22 w15+1) - do I still need to reload?MP Yes You didn't choose to start the fight with 4 down, why would you want to be inthis condition if another starts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 If I shoot 4 rds from an initial payload of 16 (G22 w15+1) - do I still need to reload?MP Not if there's more shooting to be done. See, ya just didn't give us enough information...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AikiDale Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 Gabe Suarez during an interview with Paladin PressPaladin: What do you consider to be the greatest threat to freedom in America today? GS: The desire for the illusion of safety. Lots of truth in this statement! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bear1142 Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 I always found it amusing that all the of "high-speed, low drag, operators" demand the use of gross motor skills for every firearm manipulation. Fine motor skill actions are impossible to perform under stress. Funny, isn't hitting the little, tiny magazine button a fine motor skill? Somehow they all manage to do it. Erik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokarev Posted December 30, 2004 Author Share Posted December 30, 2004 I always found it amusing that all the of "high-speed, low drag, operators" demand the use of gross motor skills for every firearm manipulation. Fine motor skill actions are impossible to perform under stress. Funny, isn't hitting the little, tiny magazine button a fine motor skill? Somehow they all manage to do it.Erik I agree that if you can't hit the slide release you probably don't have the motor control to hit the magazine release. Isn't sweeping your thumb or finger of the support hand down onto the slide release pretty much a gross motor skill? I have a friend who left the Border Patrol and got a job as a criminal investigator with the Dept. of Labor . He said that during his initial firearms training, the instructor told the class to forget about having enough coordination to perform a "reactive reload." He disagreed, as he has actually had to do this in real life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 I always found it amusing that all the of "high-speed, low drag, operators" demand the use of gross motor skills for every firearm manipulation. Fine motor skill actions are impossible to perform under stress. Funny, isn't hitting the little, tiny magazine button a fine motor skill? Somehow they all manage to do it.Erik I agree that if you can't hit the slide release you probably don't have the motor control to hit the magazine release. ..Or use the trigger.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 I always found it amusing that all the of "high-speed, low drag, operators" demand the use of gross motor skills for every firearm manipulation. Fine motor skill actions are impossible to perform under stress. Funny, isn't hitting the little, tiny magazine button a fine motor skill? Somehow they all manage to do it.Erik Bear, you beat me to the punch on that one. I was recently informed by your buddy Ernie that some folks who are professionals at studying human movement (kinesthesiologists?, or something...) consider grabbing the slide, squeezing with enough force, retracting it fully, and releasing it, to be anything BUT a gross motor skill. Short version: If you can hit the mag release, you can hit the slide release. ...Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Moneypenny Posted December 31, 2004 Share Posted December 31, 2004 I agree with a lot of things that Gabe Suarez says.. but why is he so famous today, especially with his checkered past? and is he still a free man? Very good perspective on the tactical reload I was trained from the get go by a combat vetran, rule was ALWAYS keep your weapon topped off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted December 31, 2004 Share Posted December 31, 2004 Gabe has a whole forum dedicated to self-defense (but, not a lot of gun games stuff). Check it out: http://www.warriortalk.com/index.php? I'll close this thread now, before we get too far away from the intent of this forum.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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