ZackJones Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 I'm trying to get my wife more interesting in shooting competitively. When we go to the range and shoot she enjoys it and is actually pretty good at it. This past weekend I was shooting the monthly steel challenge match and she was helping me run it. After I shot Smoke & Hope I had her shoot it. The pistol is my stock M&P .40 Pro and the loads were left over match ammo from the Alabama sectional match so they make minor USPSA power factor per their chronograph. While shooting she had several stove pipes. When I shoot, using the same ammo in the same gun I don't have any. I told her to concentrate on her grip but that didn't seem to make a difference. On Sunday our club hosted a Women on Target event and we set up Smoke & Hope again to show the lady shooters what steel challenge is all about. While there I had my wife shoot it again but this time she used some ammo loaded at Major power factor. She did two back to back runs and didn't have a single stove pipe. I borrowed a 9mm M&P and hard her shoot it twice with that pistol. It was shooting Remington white box 9mm ammo and again she shot it twice without a single stove pipe. I can't figure out why she's able to shoot better with major power factor ammo than minor power factor ammo. Could it be that with the lighter loads I'm running too heavy of a recoil spring? Any hints or tips or ideas would be greatly appreciated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 She is limp wristing the pistol. By letting the gun move so much it robs the gun of energy to operate the slide. Same thing happens to some shooters when they shoot weak hand only. Just needs to work on grip and grip strength Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgkeller Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfchorn Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Combination of limp-wristing and minor power factor loads. You can shoot the lighter loads because you don't limp-wrist the gun. She does limp-wrist (at least to some degree), and some of the recoil energy is lost. If you switch to a lighter spring, a slightly hotter load, or she improves her grip strength, the stove pipes will disappear. You have to figure out what it takes to keep her shooting and enjoying it. She may not want to go through the trouble of doing specific exercises to increase her grip strength. She may also prefer the diminished recoil and concussion blast of a minor load. That might leave changing recoil spring weights. Once she starting improving and seeing the success improvement brings, she'll be hooked. Good for you on getting her shooting. Keep it a positive experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZackJones Posted March 27, 2014 Author Share Posted March 27, 2014 Thanks for the replies. After reading them and thinking about it some more limp-wristing does seem like the problem. I think I'm going to talk her into needed a 9mm C.O.R.E. and put a red dot on it and let her shoot steel challenge in open . I think once she shoots it and understands things better she'll be more willing to shoot the matches instead of just tagging along and recording my times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeerBaron Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 the other option is loading up some ammo for her. can still be minor, but more like a 140PF or even a little more. as she develops a better grip you can tone the load down to a nice 130PF (assuming she wants to shoot USPSA). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianATL Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Or how about some lighter springs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZackJones Posted March 31, 2014 Author Share Posted March 31, 2014 the other option is loading up some ammo for her. can still be minor, but more like a 140PF or even a little more. as she develops a better grip you can tone the load down to a nice 130PF (assuming she wants to shoot USPSA). I would prefer to avoid that option due to loading on a single stage press. I suppose I could just load ammo a little hotter and shoot it but what I think I'm going to end up doing is buying her an M&P C.O.R.E. in 9mm and putting a red dot on it and let her shoot open in steel challenge with it. She has no desire for USPSA matches and getting her to shoot steel challenge is going to be a major victory for me. If she decides she doesn't like the open pistol then I'll have one for shooting steel challenge with so for me it's a win regardless . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danman00 Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 She is limp wristing the pistol. By letting the gun move so much it robs the gun of energy to operate the slide. Same thing happens to some shooters when they shoot weak hand only. Just needs to work on grip and grip strength I've seen this with my daughter many times when first started shooting my reloads. Once she learned to lock her wrists and use a stronger grip, the stove pipes went away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZackJones Posted April 9, 2014 Author Share Posted April 9, 2014 I've seen this with my daughter many times when first started shooting my reloads. Once she learned to lock her wrists and use a stronger grip, the stove pipes went away. I try to remind her before she shoots to grip it like she's trying to choke it to death and that usually helps but she's also forgetful . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lknbigfish Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 some great info here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shootsgood Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Minor power factor and allowing the lower end of the gun to move back when the slide is. it never can reach full cycle. Tell her to think about pushing her shoulder forward two inches and push into the gun. It works every time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
open17 Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 I've got a G17 that has been used by probably a dozen women over the years in matches. 80% of them had stovepipe problems unless I put in a 13 lb spring---then no problems. My wife is currently running a M&P Pro 9L, 131PF ammo. The stock flat spring stovepiped, and lighter flat springs would not lock up worth a darn. Ended up with a 14 lb Wolff round wire spring on a Wolff guiderod. That combo runs 100%. Stronghand, weakhand, off position--doesn't matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 There's a way to check this, and help her understand why it jams. Have her load the gun and take a sight picture. When shes ready to shoot grab her wrist with a firm grip (making sure that your hand will be clear of the reciprocating slide) and brace her wrist. Now have her shoot a mag off. Even with minor ammo there should be no malfunctions and the sights will also be easier for her to track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZackJones Posted May 13, 2014 Author Share Posted May 13, 2014 Thanks for the additional feedback, I do appreciate it! I recently picked up an un-captured guide rod and some lighter weight springs to try so the next time we go to the range I'll have her try the pistol with different weight springs and see if we can find a combo that works. I try to remind her of proper shooting position and to grip the gun like she was trying to choke it to death but she doesn't always remember. I've also had trigger jobs done on my M&P's and I'm thinking the lighter trigger pull will help some as well. We'll see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darqnezz Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 Its usually always the grip. Take a pic of the hands gripping the gun & post it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bountyhunter Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 She is limp wristing the pistol. By letting the gun move so much it robs the gun of energy to operate the slide. Same thing happens to some shooters when they shoot weak hand only. Just needs to work on grip and grip strength Yep. Had the exact same thing with my wife. Cycling problems and the gun would never lock back on empty mag because the slide short strokes when the user limp wrists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KJFpdx Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 I am relatively new to shooting and had a similar problem with limp wristing. At the time I didn't think I was doing it, but in retrospect I must have been limp wristing. I cured it with two things: 1. Additional training on my grip, better attention to my grip. 2. Ordered a grip strengthener for $15 off eBay -- the kind you squeeze with your hand. The one I ordered ended up being too stiff for me to open and close with my hand, so I trained just holding it closed (negative resistance). As my hand got tired, my hand would be forced open. Rest for a bit, then do it again. Switch hands as needed. I trained like this in front of the TV for about a month and my limp wristing is over. Hope that helps! Good luck to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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