Sam38 Posted December 11, 2004 Share Posted December 11, 2004 I've designed a 27 round field course that gives fat people an advantage -- but is it legal? The stage has a spring loaded platform from which 8 small poppers at distances of 10 to 25 meters must be shoot. They must be shot thru a port and can not be shot from anywhere else due to vision barriers, etc. The trick is that if the competitor weighs more than 300 lbs the platform will bottom out and provide a stable shooting platform. For anyone under that weight the platform goes up, down and sideways, being very sensitive to any movement of the competitor. The fat guy or gal will have a definite advantage of being able to aim at the poppers from a stable solid platform. Would this kind of stage design be legal? And, I may as well admit it, I do weigh over 300 pounds -- but I've been told I move fast for a fat guy. Also, if there are any mechanical engineers out there I could use some help (spring weight, etc.,) on how to build the platform. DVC, Sam Spiteri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wakal Posted December 11, 2004 Share Posted December 11, 2004 Hmmm...is it a consistant shooting challenge for all shooters? Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Orr Posted December 11, 2004 Share Posted December 11, 2004 Hmmm...is it a consistant shooting challenge for all shooters?Alex There is no such thing as a "consistant shooting challenge for all shooters." What about any other field course for a "fat, slow, bad knees, arthritic" or OLDER shooter? and so on and so on..... Just make the course - consistantly challenging. ??? Just my .02 in a world where a penny has no value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeFoley Posted December 11, 2004 Share Posted December 11, 2004 There are several Master and GrandMaster shooters I know that weigh 300 pounds, and can run a field course with the best of them, even finish top 20 at the Nationals. It is not the mass, but how you move the mass that counts. I do understand that sometimes stages reward being small, like a tight chair start, or other confining position. Your stage might cause weight gain conditioning to remain competitive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted December 11, 2004 Share Posted December 11, 2004 Funny this should come up ... At the 2003 Indiana Section Match held at FWAPS near Ft. Wayne, they had a very clever field course based on a carnival theme. At one point, there was a wooden platform mounted on (what I think was) a set of box springs for a bed. It was wiggly for just about everyone who shot it, but when I got on it, it bottomed out as soon as I quit moving. If I'd had the shooting skills to take advantage of that small "feature," I'm not sure how much it would have helped me on the stage overall unless all of the shooting had been on one. The only time I had any real advantage was when I was in one spot. I think it was actually worse for me when getting onto it and moving from one side to the other. I think a super lightweight like one of the younger GMs would be at an even bigger advantage because the thing would be essentially solid for them unless they jumped up and down. But I like the idea and it's definitely fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Posted December 11, 2004 Share Posted December 11, 2004 Hmmm...is it a consistant shooting challenge for all shooters? Sure it is: each competitor is faced with the same stage, set up the exact same way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingman Posted December 11, 2004 Share Posted December 11, 2004 They had something like that at the tristate. It was not planned that way, but some of us bigger guys had an advantage of getting it to stabilize. Also on walk the plank they had some 2*6's that could be bottomed out in the center to make it more stable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harmon Posted December 12, 2004 Share Posted December 12, 2004 i weigh a buck sixty-five...soakin wet. If i had to shoot in a stage like above, i would try to make up all the time i could on the other stages...I can run off and leave the RO in my smoke/dust/flying brass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie j Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 Say this stage comes to be what keeps me from carring a few range bags as ballast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 Sammy, Were you thinking of me when you designed this stage??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackdragon Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 First thing I do with rope bridges, is see if I can bottom them out some way! Ivan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 First thing I do with rope bridges, is see if I can bottom them out some way! Ivan That's easy: shoot the ropes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackdragon Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 WOW Way cool! now I just have to find one in line with a target! Never thought of that one, Boy! the things you learn here! Ivan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 Were you thinking of me when you designed this stage??? Maybe the two of us, Jakester. I'm well known for being light on my feet, cat-like agility, nimble maneuvers, and gazelle-like speed on field courses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 Rhino, You make Eric Grauffel look like Ponte, the dancing boy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turtle Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 Sam, There was a stage at the '04 AWARE that used a similar concept, at least in the practical application. The "Werewolves of London" stage had an activator that was lever based. When the shooter stepped on the pedal, that was about 2'x1' big, a 2 target array popped up. When you took your foot off the array disappeared. The catch was that the harder you stepped on the activator or the heavier you were, the quicker the targets appeared. I think it's a valid concept, as is yours. We all have our own crosses to bear, in life and in competition. Regards, Todd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted Murphy Posted April 14, 2005 Share Posted April 14, 2005 There was a USPSA club local to me that had a boat on springs. Several of the lighter shooters would move like a bobblehead as they shot. Several of the big shooters, picked up serious time on the stage. They sat in that boat shooting like they were a gun turret. Most people thought it was more funny than annoying, the advantage the big guys had. I doubt they'd see the humor in it at a major match though. Ted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfinney Posted April 14, 2005 Share Posted April 14, 2005 There's so many stages that favor tall, light, or "athleticly gifted" shooters, that one that somehow favors heavy people doesn't seem unfair to me... What about those "bathtub" stages, or lying reclined on a platform stages, etc. ? Granted most 40 year old, GM 300 pound shooters can move well through a field course, but I've yet to see one pull himslef out of a bath tub at ground level faster than a 150 pound 17 year old As long as everyone has to shoot through the same ports, have the same target presentations and durations, etc, I say just let 'em shoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted April 14, 2005 Share Posted April 14, 2005 At the club level, who cares? Do what you want. I am designing half the courses for the Wyoming State Match. I am going to put all of the ports at the right height for guys who are 6'4". A step stool will be provided for everyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritinUSA Posted April 14, 2005 Share Posted April 14, 2005 This all reminds me of the European Championships in Germany a few years ago. They are not allowed to shoot on the move so they introduced lots of tight ports so you had to stop and shoot. Many of the ports were low (I'm 6' 2"), After a couple of walkthroughs in deep sand and squatting down to see through these ports, my legs turned to stone... There were at least two people who pulled thigh/calf muscles due to all this madness. I think all ports should be vertical and go from floor to ceiling, that way the challenge is the same for everyone regardless of height. And speaking of boats on springs, the most memorable stage from the last year of shooting in England was at the Shield Range. They had a row-boat suspended from a beam across the range. The boat started at a 30 degree angle tied to the left hand berm. On the start signal the competitor released the rope and the boat swung left to right and back across the berm like a pendulum. I think one guy fell out It was a speed shoot and times ranged from about 8 seconds to several minutes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted April 14, 2005 Share Posted April 14, 2005 I think all ports should be vertical and go from floor to ceiling, that way the challenge is the same for everyone regardless of height. I agree. I figured that out after I built a dozen walls for the club with ports that are too low for me. All of the ports I have put into a wall in recent months do go from top to bottom or they are on a diagonal that spans a great distance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted April 18, 2005 Share Posted April 18, 2005 Good stage design really ought to include all shooters as best as possible. Designing a stage, on purpose, that favors some shooters over others isn't really good design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam38 Posted April 19, 2005 Author Share Posted April 19, 2005 Good stage design really ought to include all shooters as best as possible. Designing a stage, on purpose, that favors some shooters over others isn't really good design. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Ｆｌｅｘｍｏｎｅｙ， I totally agree, but I've shot so many stages that penalize the horizontally challenged shooter that I just wanted to design one that goes the other way. I shot the classifier Off Balance Blast last weekend and there's no way a fat guy can do it at a GM level! I would not have won the match (Open) because of this classifier -- except the guy that came in second had a brain fart and racked up a bunch of procedurals so I was able to squeak by him. If I can motivate myself enough I think I'll take a look at how fast some of the heavier GMs have shot Off Balance Blast. DVC, Sam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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