Versa max fast firing "bill drill" - is this a "defect&#34

[tb1911]

I recently purchased a Versa Max Tactical and I've been putting it through its paces. I've been running a variety different loads through it in all kinds of positions and conditions to get to know it and to see how reliable it really is. So far, I am extremely impressed. It handles pretty much everything I put through it and is very comfortable to shoot. Besides all kinds of shot loads, full power slugs are grouping nicely at 50 yards - maybe an inch and a half above point of aim. I haven't tried reduced power yet. I expect they will hit lower. As far as shotguns go, this one is proving to be the most reliable I have ever used. I also like that you can ghost load it bringing capacity up to 10 rounds.

There is one way I can make it malfunction and I am asking you guys if this is "normal". I haven't had a chance to call Remington yet, but here you go:

I load the gun up and shoot as fast as I can work the trigger until empty. I can't think of a real scenario where I would do this, but it is a nice "Bill Drill" type thing. With very light target loads, I can pretty consistently (every 3rd round or so) "beat the bolt" - drop the hammer before the bolt is locked closed. The result is hammer down on a loaded chamber and a dead trigger until you rack it, ejecting the shell and loading another. Inspection of the ejected shell shows no dent at all in the primer. With very light loads, the action cycle is pretty slow. When I use hotter ammo, I haven't been able to reproduce it.

When inspecting the gun, closing the bolt slowly by hand, and pulling the trigger at different points you can indeed drop the hammer long before the bolt is closed. The hammer hits the bottom of the bolt, not even contacting the firing pin and it follows the bolt as it closes. This confirmed the mechanical possibility that I was indeed dropping the hammer before the bolt closed.

So is this a "defect"? I don't have another gun to inspect the same way so I am not sure. I suspect this is normal and that I am simply faster on the trigger then the gun's cycle. I also suspect, as the gun gets more use and it loosens up, it may speed up and I may loose my ability to beat the bolt. Again, with hotter ammo, no problem...

Any thoughts on this?

[ak_tech]

Mine can cycle and run faster than I can pull the trigger .12 sec on a good day. That was before and after I had it worked by C-rums. But he did do a couple mods that he said would fix a couple potential issues. Maybe I remember one of them being something like you describe. Give Jeff a call and he can probubly tell you more about it. Good luck.

[dhill]

Give Benny Hill a call at Triangle Shooting Sports

[latech15]

Cough: cough: Get a benelli. Cough: cough:

[usmc1094]

Cough: cough: Get a benelli. Cough: cough:

Thats not always the answer

[kurtm]

It may not always be the answer, but in so having, you seldom if ever need the question.

[usmc1094]

I don't want to offend anyone but every firearm has its problems. He just wanted to know if that was normal with light loads

[bigbrowndog]

the answer is YES, normal, and YES, light loads or not light loads, the answer is still YES. the question is have any of the Benelli beaters actually pulled off the upset,.....................................................................that answer is NO. MAYBE on short term, NO on longevity, the Beretta 1301 may be the closest EQUAL!! time will tell.............

Trapr

no offense taken or meant.

Edited January 19, 2014 by bigbrowndog

[kurtm]

Well I for one am offended that you take nor mean any offence! I mean really, take a stance !!!

[usmc1094]

I love all firearms big or little (bigger the better)

[kurtm]

I used to love all firearms until I worked on an RG revolver

[tb1911]

Implications that I made a bad purchase decision aside, I'll give Remington a call and see what they have to say. Since the VersaMax is supposed to handle everything from light target to 3 1/2" magnums with equal reliability, I think it is worth at least a discussion with them.

I was just curious if others were able to repeat what I am able to do.

[AustinT]

Since no one has managed to give you a straight answer yet, the answer is yes, that does happen, and yes, it happens with Benellis also. That's why folks get their bolts lightened (actually, mostly they get their bolts lightened because it looks cool, but I digress). However, the vast majority of us mere mortals aren't going to be cranking off .11-.12 splits in a match type setting, so it really doesn't matter that much. If it only happens when you're trying to make it happen, and not when you're trying to knock stuff over with a shotgun, I'd say you're good.

[GunCat]

Since no one has managed to give you a straight answer yet, the answer is yes, that does happen, and yes, it happens with Benellis also. That's why folks get their bolts lightened (actually, mostly they get their bolts lightened because it looks cool, but I digress). However, the vast majority of us mere mortals aren't going to be cranking off .11-.12 splits in a match type setting, so it really doesn't matter that much. If it only happens when you're trying to make it happen, and not when you're trying to knock stuff over with a shotgun, I'd say you're good.

Pretty good take on the OP's question.

I used to love all firearms until I worked on an RG revolver

Ever had someone bring you a Nylon 66 in a bag that his brother/uncle/son* took completely apart? J B Wood called it a reassemble nightmare and he is right!

*The owner never admits to taking it apart.

[JPeel]

Since no one has managed to give you a straight answer yet, the answer is yes, that does happen, and yes, it happens with Benellis also. That's why folks get their bolts lightened (actually, mostly they get their bolts lightened because it looks cool, but I digress). However, the vast majority of us mere mortals aren't going to be cranking off .11-.12 splits in a match type setting, so it really doesn't matter that much. If it only happens when you're trying to make it happen, and not when you're trying to knock stuff over with a shotgun, I'd say you're good.

Very well stated. And this coming from a Benelli fan too!

[kurtm]

Oh yeah, the quintessential " box-o-gun"..... yes my brother's son in laws cousins wifes uncle took it apart.

[AustinT]

Since no one has managed to give you a straight answer yet, the answer is yes, that does happen, and yes, it happens with Benellis also. That's why folks get their bolts lightened (actually, mostly they get their bolts lightened because it looks cool, but I digress). However, the vast majority of us mere mortals aren't going to be cranking off .11-.12 splits in a match type setting, so it really doesn't matter that much. If it only happens when you're trying to make it happen, and not when you're trying to knock stuff over with a shotgun, I'd say you're good.

And this coming from a Benelli fan too!

Troof!

[bigbrowndog]

hey I thought I did answer the OP's question, before I started my other comments?????

Trapr

[Chuck Anderson]

I can pretty easily out run my Benelli's bolt. I can't record anything much quicker than about a .15. Seems to be the speed limit for my gun. I did shoot the Beretta 1301 at the 3GN Shootoff. They had a little demo shoot going on. I just set the gun on my shoulder and bump fired it. Best guess would be they were around .11-.12 splits. About as fast as I can go. Beretta ran fine for my extremely limited speed test.

[bigbrowndog]

on the subject of box o parts,.....in the eighties I got to sit in a DEA office and go thru numerous parts so they could tag them with the appropriate gun, ......one MAC-10 .45 part, one Uzi part, one MAC-11 part, one MAC-10 9mm part, one Uzi part, one M3 part, one SW 76 part, one MAC-10 9mm part, and so on and so on.

Trapr

[Iowashooter]

AK's do it, MSR's do it. That is why there is a forward assist on MSR's if the rifle isn't all the way in battery the hammer will fall on the bolt and not the firing pin. If you watch Tom Knapp (R.I.P.) in some of his videos he talks about outrunning the gun and this is what he is referring to (Tom Knapp shot Benelli's). It also allows a user to release the sping tension on the hammer if storing for an extended period without dry firing. You walk the hammer down on the bolt as opposed to dry firing. Now every gun has a different point at which the hammer will actually fall, and this will equate to the likelihood of a malfunction happening. I can't say it happens on all guns but I know it isn't a rare thing. With a bolt gun you can even squeeze the trigger as you close the bolt and that will walk the striker down without dry firing.

[tb1911]

Since no one has managed to give you a straight answer yet, the answer is yes, that does happen, and yes, it happens with Benellis also. That's why folks get their bolts lightened (actually, mostly they get their bolts lightened because it looks cool, but I digress). However, the vast majority of us mere mortals aren't going to be cranking off .11-.12 splits in a match type setting, so it really doesn't matter that much. If it only happens when you're trying to make it happen, and not when you're trying to knock stuff over with a shotgun, I'd say you're good.

AustinT,

Thanks for your direct and complete answer. That's what I was looking for. This is exactly why I love this forum. I knew I would learn something. As noted, probably unrealistic to expect to every need to crank off splits like that in a match setting, but I still wanted to know if I was dealing with a potential problem. I will be using a heavier load in matches as I have seen steel fail to fall to many times to use the lightest stuff out there - that's just me. So, no need (yet) to lighten the bolt.

When I get a new gun like this (a new platform), I like to really work it to see its characteristics and limits. I am least familiar with shotguns built for 3-gun, so this was very useful and educational.

Thanks again and everyone else too for chiming in!

[Iowashooter]

Also I like to practice feeling the reset of the trigger on all my semiauto's. I stay on the trigger through the shot and then release and feel the reset and prep and squeeze again. It creates enough lag time for me that I won't outrun the bolt. For me this aids in accuracy in rifle and pistol, but is probably futile with the shotgun, however I like to have the same fundamental accross platforms. To see this in perfection watch some of Jerry Miculek's Youtube videos with his slo-mo cameras he still almost outruns the gun. but just as the bolt locks up the hammer falls.

[tb1911]

I've seen that video. It is awesome. He is having WAY too much fun!

[DDustin]

Also I like to practice feeling the reset of the trigger on all my semiauto's. I stay on the trigger through the shot and then release and feel the reset and prep and squeeze again. It creates enough lag time for me that I won't outrun the bolt. For me this aids in accuracy in rifle and pistol, but is probably futile with the shotgun, however I like to have the same fundamental accross platforms. To see this in perfection watch some of Jerry Miculek's Youtube videos with his slo-mo cameras he still almost outruns the gun. but just as the bolt locks up the hammer falls.

I'd have to file bankruptcy just from the cost of ammo he blows through in this video. He certainly is one lucky man. It's also nice to see that he still runs the Vortex Razor on the 50. I wonder how long it'll hold up to that.