Nate Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 How does weight affect recoil? I need, due to physical issues, a handgun that transfers the least possible amount of recoil to my hands. How is it different to my hand for a 34 oz gun in recoil from a minor 9mm, compared to a 44 oz gun? I know they feel different, but is the physical affect different? Am I actually receiving less energy? I am looking for facts rather than perceptions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bountyhunter Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 (edited) How does weight affect recoil? I need, due to physical issues, a handgun that transfers the least possible amount of recoil to my hands. How is it different to my hand for a 34 oz gun in recoil from a minor 9mm, compared to a 44 oz gun? I know they feel different, but is the physical affect different? Am I actually receiving less energy? I am looking for facts rather than perceptions.The total recoil energy is the same, but the perceived may be totally different. Remember that autos are recoil operated, so a considerable portion is eaten up moving the barrel and slide and compressing the recoil spring. On an auto, the recoil back to you is in a peak pulse (at discharge) then a ramp up with lower peak as the recoil spring compresses, then a small pulse as the slide hits the frame. The relative amplitudes of the pulses can be tweaked by changing springs. So, even though the total recoil energy is constant, the peak you feel can be manipulated. Recoil is very much dependent on bore axis relative to the wrist pivot point which is why gripping higher reduces felt recoil. In general, a heavier gun will probably feel like less recoil to you. Edited January 19, 2014 by bountyhunter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Posted January 19, 2014 Author Share Posted January 19, 2014 So some of the energy is "used" moving the slide and compressing the spring? So for my purposes a full profile slide like a 2011 is to my advantage. Also the recoil master will distribute the peak energy over a longer period I assume. I think my goal is to reach the smallest peak in recoil energy. Is this comparable to shocks on a car? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bountyhunter Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 (edited) So some of the energy is "used" moving the slide and compressing the spring? So for my purposes a full profile slide like a 2011 is to my advantage.Probably, depends on several things. The first recoil pulse is affected by how much energy it takes to "unlock" the slide and allow it to start moving back which depends on hammer springs, recoil springs, and other effects. Generally I think a bigger gun will feel like less recoil because it's mass has more inertia so it takes more energy to make it accelerate back against you. Also the recoil master will distribute the peak energy over a longer period I assume.That is the theory, a lighter spring at forward slide position allows unlock at lower force level. But it doesn't alter the hammer spring which is a bigger determiner in force needed to unlock. I have about five autos with dual rate "recoil reducers" and I don't find noticable reduction in recoil but some people do. It's subjective. I think my goal is to reach the smallest peak in recoil energy. Is this comparable to shocks on a car?No, guns are a little more complicated. I think the greatest tool in reducing recoil is a compensator if that is possible for you. Edited January 19, 2014 by bountyhunter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Phil Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 Remember that recoil and muzzle rise or flip are two different, yet, intertwined areas. A heavy gun will feel less recoil and probably less flip. But, things such as compensators or hybrid holes in the barrel will greatly decrease flip, but in some cases (hybrid holes) increase the amount of recoil straight back into your hand. I shot a .357 mag Ruger SP101 2 1/2" gun with hybrid holes. 125gr remington factory loads produced literally no flip! But, in hand recoil was wicked! same thing with my ported 3" 44 mag. Little flip, big recoil. And, great fun BTW! Heavy bullets at lower velocities will tend to reduce the flip (I think that is due to the slower recoil arc, IMHO) but the felt (in hand) recoil is sometimes the same. I find that loads in my 6" 1911 9mm tend to feel like less recoil and flip than the same loads in a 3.5", 4" or 4.5" gun. Maybe a combination of heavier, longer bbl, and load selection? Hope your search keeps you shooting!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi-Power Jack Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 I am looking for facts rather than perceptions. Sorry, no facts, just perceptions. If I shoot the same cartridges in my 42 ounce pistol, there is MUCH less muzzle flip and recoil (my perception) than in my KelTec that weights less than 16 ounces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonOfSpartans Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 Perhaps something like this will help? http://www.shooterscalculator.com/recoil-calculator.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Posted January 19, 2014 Author Share Posted January 19, 2014 That is very helpful sonO. It looks like a 9mm 2011 in minor offers a 40% reduction in recoil. For me that could work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bountyhunter Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 A compensator actually does reduce recoil because it has an expansion chamber and a flat "wall" that the forward moving gases slam into creating a forward force along the barrel axis which offsets part of the recoil force. It will reduce recoil and the attendant muzzle rise which is the result of the recoil force axis being above the wrist joint causing rotation there. As for barrel holes, ports, vents etc I have never seen one that reduced recoil or (to my perception) muzzle flip but some peple think they work. Compensators absolutely work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Posted January 19, 2014 Author Share Posted January 19, 2014 Not a dot guy, if I can help it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 Lots of thoughts and ideas, not sure about actual data... What is the thing that is recoiling? There is talk of lowering the reciprocating mass (weight of the slide), to reduce felt recoil. The recoil of the slide works against the frame of the gun. So, theory is to have a light slide in a heavier frame. You still get the recoil. The idea is to dampen it. Similar to as mentioned with spreading the peak recoil out over time (see above posts). Then, oddly and contradictory enough, there is the Glock 20 (10mm based gun). It has a plastic frame (light) and a relatively heavy slide. Yet it feels softer shooting than a Glock 35. I have to attribute that to the larger/wider grip. Just because I can't figure it out otherwise. What most want to do with recoil reduction is to decrease the "snappy" recoil. Is that is what you are after? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Posted January 20, 2014 Author Share Posted January 20, 2014 Due to an upcoming wrist reconstruction, I will need to find the gun that transfers the least amount of energy back to my hand. I likely will never be able to run 10k of major again, but I have a 16 year old who loves shooting and I want to keep my hand in. I will shot weak hand only this season but if the repair works (70%), I want to shoot with him in a semi competitive way. Minor limited is my likely choice. The calculator linked above is interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EkuJustice Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Single stack minor is a good choice as my 9mm 1911 is very light on recoil. On a 2011 an Edge would have more weight out front and be very light as well. If the weight of the gun wasn't an issue, one of the phoenix trinity steel grips would make for a very heavy gun that should feel like a 22 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpeltier Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Due to an upcoming wrist reconstruction, I will need to find the gun that transfers the least amount of energy back to my hand. I likely will never be able to run 10k of major again, but I have a 16 year old who loves shooting and I want to keep my hand in. I will shot weak hand only this season but if the repair works (70%), I want to shoot with him in a semi competitive way. Minor limited is my likely choice. The calculator linked above is interesting. I feel your pain. I have a severe case of arthritus in my strong hand wrist that will need a bone fusion eventually. I have been chasing the recoil issue for some time now and you are on the right track. Heavy is good to a point, but for me too heavy also meant pain just trying to hold the darn thing up for extended periods. This was why I got rid of my custom 9mm high cap caspian. Bore axis is also a factor. The higher the bore axis the more recoil wants to lever the gun out of your hand. The s&w m&p 9mm has about the lowest bore axis going, and is pretty soft shooting especially with a heavy guide rod and powder puff loads. The absolute softest shooting 9mm I've tried was recently I got to demo shoot a couple of custom 9mm STI 2011's. WOW, if I had $4000 to spend on a gun, that would be it. One other tip is to not go overly aggressive on the grip treatment. Many shooters don't want the gun to move at all and go for texturing that actually grips so well that all that energy seems to transfer to your hand. Having it slip a little is actually a good thing for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Posted February 2, 2014 Author Share Posted February 2, 2014 I bought a 2011 STI and it is very soft. An aluminum grip is + 4 oz and steel + 11. Aluminum might hold up with 9mm and be a good intermediate option. Not a brick but still soak up the recoil. Does the trinity grip work with old style SV trigger bow and STI mags? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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