Nowind0 Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 I am building a rifle for Precision Rifle matches out to 1000 yds. Wondering what caliber others are having success with. Looking for Short Action, and no excessive forming of brass. Thanks Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warpspeed Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 I think the popular stuff these days is the 6.5mm family. The 6.5 Creedmoor seems to be at or near the top of the list for most of the serious guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Middle Man Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 I think the popular stuff these days is the 6.5mm family. The 6.5 Creedmoor seems to be at or near the top of the list for most of the serious guys. Yep, the shooters finishing in the top twenty in precision matches are shooting 6.5 and 6mm rounds. Easiest route would be 6.5 Creedmoor. You have factory match ammo from Hornady as well as factory brass so no laborious forming. But everyone needs a 308... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stlhead Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 6mm by a long margin right now. The 105 hybrids are the ticket. 6mm creed moor, .243, 6x47 lapua would be the only cartridges I would consider right now if I where looking to build a new gun. They each have slight advantages and disadvantages but are nearly ballistically equal. The 6.5's offer a better barrel life, and more splash when you miss, but are ballistically inferior, even if only slightly, and have more recoil. The good thing is that nearly any long range capable cartridge can get you in the game, most people start with a 308 and then go to a 6.5 or 6mm later. Not a bad way to go, by the time you shoot out the 308 you are probably going to be ready for something a little faster and flatter. As long as you are having fun what does it really matter, shoot whatever your buddies shoot so you can at least reload together! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nowind0 Posted January 3, 2014 Author Share Posted January 3, 2014 Thanks for the replies. Anyone shooting 6XC or 6mm Super LR? is there any advantage for the 6.5 Creedmoor over the 260 rem if you reload? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Freeman Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 The 6 Creedmore is the winning caliber right now. The 6XC is a good choice, but a bit of a barrel burner. The XC was built around SR-25 mags and not Accuracy International mags which allows longer ammo. I ditched the XC after smoking my 2nd barrel and selling my Tubb2000. I am still shooting my 6 Competition Match (243 with a 30' shoulder) and have no plans to change. I can easily push 115 DTACs to 3200 fps with no pressure using H1000 powder. If I want more velocity I can use H4350 or 4831. And brass (Winchester or Lapua 243) is easy to find. I can even shoot factory 243 ammo in it. About five to six years ago when I started to shoot a 6mm at matches everyone thought I was a dumbass for doing it. Everyone said you had to shoot a 308 or 260 so the RO would be able to see the hits on steel at distance. Turns out you can solidly move a 8-12 inch plate with a 6mm bullet at 1,200 yards enough to see a hit. I am still a dumbass, but for many different things. The 6.5 Creedmore is ok with lighter bullets, but the 260 does better with the heavies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
427Cobra Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 http://precisionrifleblog.com/2013/12/17/best-rifle-caliber-what-the-pros-use/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
californiasushi Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 I am still shooting my 6 Competition Match (243 with a 30' shoulder) and have no plans to change. I can easily push 115 DTACs to 3200 fps with no pressure using H1000 powder. What kind of barrel life are you getting with this load out of the 6cm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Freeman Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 I am still shooting my 6 Competition Match (243 with a 30' shoulder) and have no plans to change. I can easily push 115 DTACs to 3200 fps with no pressure using H1000 powder. What kind of barrel life are you getting with this load out of the 6cm? Pushing them to 3,200 fps about 3,000 rounds. Maybe a little less. Throttle it back to 3,000 fps and 4,000 round barrel life is about the norm. I pulled my last barrel, a Brux 8 twist, around the 3,500 round mark. It still had plenty of life left in it but I didnt want it to possibly die in the middle of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Smith Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 The 6.5 CM and .260 are pretty much identical in ballistics. If you are a reloader then you can get good quality .260 brass to start with and not have to reform anything. If you want access to off-the-shelf ammo then the 6.5 CM is the ticket. One caution, if you are a reloader and want to go with the 6.5 CM, then be aware that about the only brass you can get for now is Hornady and it may not reload quite as well as the .260 Lapua brass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoomy Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Check out www.6mmar.com , They list and test 30 rounds in the 6mm range including lots of tech details and where to get barrels and tooling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
californiasushi Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 I am still shooting my 6 Competition Match (243 with a 30' shoulder) and have no plans to change. I can easily push 115 DTACs to 3200 fps with no pressure using H1000 powder. What kind of barrel life are you getting with this load out of the 6cm? Pushing them to 3,200 fps about 3,000 rounds. Maybe a little less. Throttle it back to 3,000 fps and 4,000 round barrel life is about the norm. I pulled my last barrel, a Brux 8 twist, around the 3,500 round mark. It still had plenty of life left in it but I didnt want it to possibly die in the middle of the season. Great info, thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
427Cobra Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Most matches have a 3150 speed limit to protect the ranges steel, 6 creed will push the 105s easily to that limit, with a little less barrel life to the 6CM Mr Freemen uses, Lapua 260 brass SUCKS, it's expensive, no better accuracy than Rem brass, or reformed Win 7-08 brass, and less life, I just switched to 6.5 creed, brass or loaded ammo is easy to find, shoots great, and is easy to load for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Smith Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Lapua 260 brass SUCKS, it's expensive, no better accuracy than Rem brass, or reformed Win 7-08 brass, and less life I know a whole lot of long range shooters that would strongly disagree with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38superman Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 (edited) I am no expert so take my comments with a grain of salt. I entered my first precision rifle match last November. This particular match was a 2-gun match, so we had pistol gear to lug around along with the rifles. The courses of fire had us shooting rifle and pistol on IPSC-like stages with long range rifle shots mixed in out to around 725 yds. Scoring was based on points and par times. What I learned was that weight and speed are major considerations. Because the clock mattered, you couldn't shoot at a leisurely pace. Take too much time and you don't get all your shots off. I saw a lot of bolt action guys burning time while working the actions. They also seemed to have much more trouble with reloading the box magazines common to bolt guns. The larger capacity AR type mags and the ease of reloading, plus the quick follow up shots made it clear for me that a gas gun was an advantage. This was especially true on the short range IPSC targets. Weight mattered a great deal as the physical aspect of the match was a great challenge, at least for me. There was a lot of movement (up and down hill) and negotiating obstacles while carrying a heavy pack loaded with rifle and pistol ammo. Most stages had you shooting from unsteady and awkward positions, so manueverability of the rifle was at a premium. With all those things considered, the AR was most useful. However, an AR15 in .223 was at a big disadvantage beyond 550-600 yds. The typical AR-10 calibers are far superior on long range shots, but the AR10 is way heavy. For me the best compromise would be an AR-15 in 6.5 Grendel. It has the speed, relatively light weight in gun and ammo, portability, and ballistics. Tls Edited January 7, 2014 by 38superman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbrowndog Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 (edited) On the whole gas gun bolt gun issue, I just got back from Mammoth Sniper, I shot a gas gun and it ran flawlessly for the whole match, but it was lubed properly. Weather conditions were mild 40's to teens, snow, rain, ice, If my scope had done the same I would have been happy. I RO'd a squad of 14 shooters and they placed consistently in the top 15, of the 14 many many many had cycling issues, mags were an issue, operator error was an issue, and using precious time reloading was an issue, pulling the trigger on an empty chamber was an issue, yet they still finished well. there were 3 gas gun users in the group and none had cycling issues. The second place team in one division also used gas guns, and had no issues. As far as disadvantages the only issues are less calibers to choose from, accuracy is not an issue. target sizes ran from 2moa to 1/2moa, 37yds to 1067yds. trapr Edited January 7, 2014 by bigbrowndog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
427Cobra Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 GS you may know......., I have actual experience with Lapua 260 brass, mine lasted 3-4 firings and the primer pockets were gone, Rem 260 brass lasts 5-6 firings, Win 7-08 goes at least 20 firings, so unless you have first hand experience with Lapua 260 STFU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agney5 Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Seriously? Cobra you have been here since 2008, you haven't been all that active in that time but you still should have figured out that that is not how things work on here. If you disagree with someone that is fine, but there are better ways to convey a message than telling someone to stfu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dt1 Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 (edited) It was REALLY great hanging out with you at Mammoth Trapr! Thanks again for the great job of spotting and RO'ing! You've made some good points regarding gas vs bolt rifles. Anyone who thinks bolt guns are inherently more reliable than a gas gun hasn't been to many matches where both are used. I think the only gas gun malfunction I saw at Mammoth was with the stage rifle on our first stage The OP wanted to know a good caliber to build a LR precision match rifle in. Any of the 6.5mm or 6mm calibers out there work just fine. Personally, I use 260 Rem and 243W b/c brass is (relatively) easy to find and there's plenty of good load data out there for a variety of bullets. Pick one and spend your time and $ practicing vs worrying about someone's opinion of what's best. I did OK at Mammoth but nobody beat me because they had a better caliber. They just shot better and hit more targets. On the whole gas gun bolt gun issue, I just got back from Mammoth Sniper, I shot a gas gun and it ran flawlessly for the whole match, but it was lubed properly. Weather conditions were mild 40's to teens, snow, rain, ice, If my scope had done the same I would have been happy. I RO'd a squad of 14 shooters and they placed consistently in the top 15, of the 14 many many many had cycling issues, mags were an issue, operator error was an issue, and using precious time reloading was an issue, pulling the trigger on an empty chamber was an issue, yet they still finished well. there were 3 gas gun users in the group and none had cycling issues. The second place team in one division also used gas guns, and had no issues. As far as disadvantages the only issues are less calibers to choose from, accuracy is not an issue. target sizes ran from 2moa to 1/2moa, 37yds to 1067yds. trapr Edited January 9, 2014 by dt1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38superman Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 I agree, dt1 I wasn't really trying to start a gas vs. bolt debate. The OP was asking for opinions about the best caliber for a precision rifle. Caliber?,... Depends. That's a very complex question and I think it depends on a lot of factors. Do you expect to do anything else with the gun or will it be purely dedicated to Precision Matches? What type of matches? 2-Gun, Rifle Only? What ranges do you expect to encounter? Once you answer those questions it will go a long way toward determining the platform, and that will influence the choice of caliber. Bolt? if so long action or short?, Small frame AR? Large Frame AR? For example: If you are looking at extreme ranges, you're probably looking at a long action bolt to get the powder capacity and pushing a bullet with a very high ballistic coefficient like maybe a 300 win mag. However, You don't really want to be blasting at 25 yd pistol targets with a 300 mag. Like I said, complex question. I prefer that my bullet is still supersonic when it arrives at the target, therefore: 25 to 600 yds = AR15 in .223 out to 1000 yds = AR 15 in 6.5 Grendel - or - AR 10 in .260; 6.5 Creed; .308 out to 1200 = Short Action Bolt gun in the AR10 calibers above. beyond 1200 = Long Action Bolt gun in 7mm or .300 mag Tls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgtsvi Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 I just got this Surgeon .260 and it's a great caliber for reloading as well as shooting. I was hitting clays at 1000 yards the first time I took it out. I also like the fact that I can use brass for 260, 243, and 7mm-08 for my loads. Even during the ammo drought, I could find brass in these calibers since most rifles in those calibers are hunting rifles so people weren't panic buying that stuff. I also have a .308, because everyone should have one in their safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nowind0 Posted February 4, 2014 Author Share Posted February 4, 2014 That is a sweet looking rifle. Thanks for sharing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nowind0 Posted February 4, 2014 Author Share Posted February 4, 2014 I decided to go with the 260 after considering all the suggestions. Thanks to all. I made the decision base on having about 2,000 pcs of 260 brass that was given to me and having the dies from me shooting NRA Highpower. Going to try the 130 Bergers to start. The rifle is waiting on me to get to the gunsmiths shop to pick it up....and write the check of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taliv Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 260 is a great choice. it has a little more recoil so it is a wee bit harder to spot your own trace but it makes more splash on targets and dirt so easier to see hits and misses if you have a visible backstop. i shoot a 260AI mostly i'd say 140g hybrids are the most popular choice at the moment, but for the money i was sorely tempted to try out those 136L scenars when midway had them on sale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgtsvi Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 I shoot 139gr. Lapua scenars and 140gr. Hornady V-Max with good results. Get a 8lb can of H4350 and you will be good to go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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