Kimber CUSTOM SHOP-REAL OR MARKETING HYPE?

[Kimbertarget]

My misses "wants" this KIMBER PRO RAPTOR II "custom shop" 1911

Ive searched many forums to no avail.

I cannot find a simple yes or no answer to whether or not KIMBER physically has a "CUSTOM SHOP"?

I think they are a decent production semi-custom at best,however my misses shot a friends "custom" pro raptor II,it had a matte black slide but a brushed satin silver frame and light wood grips,chain link checkering,ambi safety,night sights and a bushingless barrel in a commander size 1911 for $899. I found one that is 90% N.R.A. Condition at local gunshop.

I was surprised that KIMBER doesnt have an EMAIL customer service address for those of us who work at nights and cant call during operating hours.

I much rather buy an older all steel ROCK RIVER or older NORINCO or another COLT enhanced and modify it with non-M.I.M. Tool steel internals etc and know what im getting.

but since its for my misses i want to get the opinion of someone who owns or has owned a KIMBER CUSTOM and whether or not it is just a marketing ploy for a production 1911 with checkering/ext-controls.

Ive never owned a KIMBER so can someone please give me a YES or NO answer if there is an actual CUSTOM SHOP?

Edited December 27, 2013 by Kimbertarget

[cheers623]

I've had 9+ different Kimber "Custom" shop pistols. While others may have had different experiences than me, I've sold everyone of them and will never own another Kimber pistol again. The exterior cosmetics are really nice on some of them but upon closer inspection and use, each and every single one I owned had serious quality control issues. Usually relating to either slide-to-frame fit, barrel-to-slide fit, or barrel bushing fit. This doesn't even cover things like poorly fit or un-tensioned extractors, ambi-thumb safeties that didn't work, or slide stop pins that were grossly undersized. The few instances where I chose to deal with Kimber customer service instead of either fix the problem myself or send it to a gunsmith, they were rude and insulting, didn't fix the problem, or, in one case, sent back the WRONG GUN! Yes, you read that right. Fortunately I happened to have a photo of the pistol in question showing the serial number before I'd returned it. Prior to seeing the picture I'd taken, their head of customer service told me that they couldn't have possibly sent the wrong pistol and that ALL OF THE ATF FORMS AND PAPERWORK I'd filled out at the gunshop were mistaken. After seeing the photo he changed his tune...but not how rude and insulting he was.

While the early Clakamas stamped pistols are generally great examples of a nice production 1911, I'd avoid spending any real money on one. There are so many better built pistols on the market including Ruger, Remington, Springfield, and STI that you just don't need the hassle. This doesn't even include some of the imported ones that are fantastic values such as Armscor, Rock Island, STI Spartan etc.

YMMV

Cheers

[Bob DuBois]

I do not know about the Custom shop but have had several Kimber pistols in 45acp. First was a simple Custom plane Jane with a little tuning excellent shooter. Custom 2 that had poorly fitted aftermarket parts cleaned up great Stainless did a little smoothing and a trigger job, already had a Barsto barrel fitted when I bought it. Problem was it wouldn't shoot every time so a little work on the safety and it's the best shooting 45 I have ever owned. I've seen the inside of all of them and place Kimber high in quality parts but it is not a Custom pistol out of the box. It will take a little tuning to get any brand up to fine tuned.

STI's are good guns have a Trojan and Spartan in 9mm enjoy both but they also will need a little work to get them up to speed but there's a reason lot's of custom pistols are built off their products. Trojan is a good buy for the money in todays world. Even seen Wilson pistols that need just a tweak or two though slight. A friend bought a beautiful SVI in 40 it also need just a little work on the magazines.

Bottom line which ever brand you select expect to spend just a little more on tuning to get it to fit you and the ammunition your using. I would suggest a pistol with adjustable sights if your going to use it in competition.

[EkuJustice]

The older kimbers are a much nicer gun than the current production guns. A lot their custom shop higher end guns are simply cosmetic changes on the surface

Edited December 27, 2013 by EkuJustice

[enroute]

I've heard it is not a seperate shop, such as you find at S&W's P.C. or the SA custom shop. Rumor.

However, knowing exactly who it is for, it (kimber) may be more acceptable than a divorce? How important is it, to HER? I don't know that answer....

[Rick88]

The older kimbers are a much nicer gun than the current production guns. A lot their custom shop higher end guns are simply cosmetic changes on the surface

Agree with this, I have an older one and its far better then anything being made today. I'm not even sure who is making them now or from where.

[leas327]

A friend of mine loaned me a Grand Raptor ll a few years ago. I was shooting a plain Kimber at the time. From what I can remember aside from cosmetics the custom shop gun had a polished feed ramp, the bushing was fit tighter, and the frame to slide was tighter. I ran five or six hundred rounds through the raptor. It was probably a wash as far as off hand accuracy was concerned but that was probably more me than the guns. I never bench shot or ransomed either.

I am not sure I would like the external extractor. My gun chipped the original and I ordered a new one from EGW. With a Kimber external you would pretty much be stuck getting another one from Kimber.

I have no clue if their Custom Shop is a real thing, but in my experience the Custom shop gun seemed a like it was fit up a little tighter. Both of those guns were manufactured 12 years ago. I have heard Kimbers QC has slipped some. I also heard that when I bought my gun. Internet gurus had decided the only decent Kimber was made at Clakamas.

For what its worth when my gun hit about the 15,000 mark it started having problems. The ejector and extractor have both been replaced. I also put in an EGW ignition kit but there was nothing wrong with the old parts, I was trying to buy skill. The majority of my problems were coming from beat up/ out of spec mags and .45 being the first pistol I learned to reload for.

[ipscjoe]

I have a gold match 2 and couldn't be happier. Its tight and shoots one hole groups. All I did was a trigger job and added a FO sight and magwell.

My question is if the guns are so bad with poor slide to to frame fits and a safety that didnt work why did you buy it in the first place? Did you think it would shoot itself tighter? And you didnt check the safety at the store? thats the kind if thing that I would never have left the store with. I'm calling bs on a lot of what I read on the Internet.

You are always going to hear from the people that have had issues on the Internet , and nothing from the thousands of people that had NO issues. Name a company that doesn't have at least one person that is "un satisfied". Look at all the STI bashing as of late. If every single gun was a lemon would they still be in business ? Come on guys.

As for the custom shop guns, except for the tighter fit barrell (which the gold match has for less money) its ALLLLLLLL cosmetics. I guarantee you will rip the front sight off and put a new one on and put a magwell you like on the gun and change the grips.

Do the serrations make it shoot better than regular serrations ?

She needs a tight accurate reliable gun with good sights (preferably adjustable), and good trigger, that she will have confidence in. Then feed it quality ammo...........And that DOESN'T have to be a kimber. That goes for any gun.

Edited December 27, 2013 by ipscjoe

[polizei1]

Do some research, to my knowledge Kimber does NOT have a true custom shop like SACS. I wouldn't personally buy a Kimber, way too many better options out there.

[Kimbertarget]

I've had 9+ different Kimber "Custom" shop pistols. While others may have had different experiences than me, I've sold everyone of them and will never own another Kimber pistol again. The exterior cosmetics are really nice on some of them but upon closer inspection and use, each and every single one I owned had serious quality control issues. Usually relating to either slide-to-frame fit, barrel-to-slide fit, or barrel bushing fit. This doesn't even cover things like poorly fit or un-tensioned extractors, ambi-thumb safeties that didn't work, or slide stop pins that were grossly undersized. The few instances where I chose to deal with Kimber customer service instead of either fix the problem myself or send it to a gunsmith, they were rude and insulting, didn't fix the problem, or, in one case, sent back the WRONG GUN! Yes, you read that right. Fortunately I happened to have a photo of the pistol in question showing the serial number before I'd returned it. Prior to seeing the picture I'd taken, their head of customer service told me that they couldn't have possibly sent the wrong pistol and that ALL OF THE ATF FORMS AND PAPERWORK I'd filled out at the gunshop were mistaken. After seeing the photo he changed his tune...but not how rude and insulting he was.

While the early Clakamas stamped pistols are generally great examples of a nice production 1911, I'd avoid spending any real money on one. There are so many better built pistols on the market including Ruger, Remington, Springfield, and STI that you just don't need the hassle. This doesn't even include some of the imported ones that are fantastic values such as Armscor, Rock Island, STI Spartan etc.

YMMV

Cheers

WOW,ive heard of some external extractor issues and fit and finish blemishes as well as the poor customer service, but SENDING YOU THE WRONG PISTOL?? How is that possible/LEGAL?

Well i needed your post to show my misses that it isnt a true custom and to stop reading "kimber forum" posts,of course they are going to not admit they have a fair 1911.

Thank you for your honesty

[Kimbertarget]

She uses my Glock-34 which i won production division with.

My COLT ENHANCED CUSTOM she recently shot and did very well with,its a tack driver to 35yards which is more than we need for STEEL CHALLENGE which we do more than practical matches or two-gun.

Since i run my 1911 in single stack and my glock in production, she uses her glock-19 and now wants to run S.S. division as well since its only $5 more to compete and you get alot more out of the match running two divisions.

I should be more specific. Ive looked at used BAERS,BROWNS,and NIGHTHAWK for middle priced 1911s and older steel ROCK RIVER & older Norincos,caspian/springer combo 1911s for around the $1000-1300range. None of the latter have a notched trigger guard,beveled magwell,flat top slide,checkering etc.

I dont want to spend money on a "KIMBER" to have to spend additional money and time to get it to run 100%.

i have had 0-failures with my Colt and only one stove pipe on another because i had a bad purchase on the grip and dragged my thumb on the slide,hence why i sometimes use the old school thumb slide guards. I saw a .40cal 1911 in a mag recently and cannot remember the custom builder but it had a Swenson ambi thumb safety that acted as a thumb slide guard as well,a very cool,trick set up.

However when i did google search i couldnt find one for sale. It says TOMMYGUN on the slide and Todd jarret shoots one in .40. Anyone know who sels this exact "Tommy gun" model .40 1911? I bet its a full custom price but we dont have a budget so please post links to options for an ultra reliable steel challenge 1911 that she could cross over and do some USPSA/IDPA div matches with maybe as well.

Ive seen some use Baers for a reasonable price,but you know women she wants it to have that "grand raptor" look,cool checkering,front serrations (she does occassionally chamber check) if not in condition-1. The kimber pro raptors i have to say are a good looking 1911 but since ive never shot or owned a Kimber and from what i hear i think im going to have to either buy a NIGHTHAWK or BAER custom.

Any other options? Im open to both major and minor calibers,9mm,.40,personally i think a 1911 should be a .45 its like putting a ford engine in a chevelle otherwise but hey thats just me.

here is my single stack tool with 44*crown/flush cut,Briley spherical,FLGR,narrow hood,infinity disco/triglide,etc etc:

...

Edited December 27, 2013 by Kimbertarget

[cheers623]

I've had 9+ different Kimber "Custom" shop pistols. While others may have had different experiences than me, I've sold everyone of them and will never own another Kimber pistol again. The exterior cosmetics are really nice on some of them but upon closer inspection and use, each and every single one I owned had serious quality control issues. Usually relating to either slide-to-frame fit, barrel-to-slide fit, or barrel bushing fit. This doesn't even cover things like poorly fit or un-tensioned extractors, ambi-thumb safeties that didn't work, or slide stop pins that were grossly undersized. The few instances where I chose to deal with Kimber customer service instead of either fix the problem myself or send it to a gunsmith, they were rude and insulting, didn't fix the problem, or, in one case, sent back the WRONG GUN! Yes, you read that right. Fortunately I happened to have a photo of the pistol in question showing the serial number before I'd returned it. Prior to seeing the picture I'd taken, their head of customer service told me that they couldn't have possibly sent the wrong pistol and that ALL OF THE ATF FORMS AND PAPERWORK I'd filled out at the gunshop were mistaken. After seeing the photo he changed his tune...but not how rude and insulting he was.

While the early Clakamas stamped pistols are generally great examples of a nice production 1911, I'd avoid spending any real money on one. There are so many better built pistols on the market including Ruger, Remington, Springfield, and STI that you just don't need the hassle. This doesn't even include some of the imported ones that are fantastic values such as Armscor, Rock Island, STI Spartan etc.

YMMV

Cheers

WOW,ive heard of some external extractor issues and fit and finish blemishes as well as the poor customer service, but SENDING YOU THE WRONG PISTOL?? How is that possible/LEGAL?

Well i needed your post to show my misses that it isnt a true custom and to stop reading "kimber forum" posts,of course they are going to not admit they have a fair 1911.

Thank you for your honesty

Hey, thanks for the follow up. I'm sure to have P.O.ed some Kimber owners but I can only tell you my experience. I knew nothing about 1911s before I bought my first Kimber. I bought it because it was by far the nicest "looking" 1911 in the case. Now, after having bought and sold dozens of 1911/2011s and fired well over 100,000 rounds in competition, practice, plinking, etc thru 1911 pistols over 20 years I can tell you that there are a lot of companies that make great 1911s. All of them let lemons out into the market. My experience and the experience of many folks I know is that Kimber seems to let out FAR MORE of them. Good luck in the hunt for the Mrs. next 1911. My wife has an STI Guardian, Trojan, and Tactical, all in 9mm that she loves!

Cheers

[Kimbertarget]

I've had 9+ different Kimber "Custom" shop pistols. While others may have had different experiences than me, I've sold everyone of them and will never own another Kimber pistol again. The exterior cosmetics are really nice on some of them but upon closer inspection and use, each and every single one I owned had serious quality control issues. Usually relating to either slide-to-frame fit, barrel-to-slide fit, or barrel bushing fit. This doesn't even cover things like poorly fit or un-tensioned extractors, ambi-thumb safeties that didn't work, or slide stop pins that were grossly undersized. The few instances where I chose to deal with Kimber customer service instead of either fix the problem myself or send it to a gunsmith, they were rude and insulting, didn't fix the problem, or, in one case, sent back the WRONG GUN! Yes, you read that right. Fortunately I happened to have a photo of the pistol in question showing the serial number before I'd returned it. Prior to seeing the picture I'd taken, their head of customer service told me that they couldn't have possibly sent the wrong pistol and that ALL OF THE ATF FORMS AND PAPERWORK I'd filled out at the gunshop were mistaken. After seeing the photo he changed his tune...but not how rude and insulting he was.

While the early Clakamas stamped pistols are generally great examples of a nice production 1911, I'd avoid spending any real money on one. There are so many better built pistols on the market including Ruger, Remington, Springfield, and STI that you just don't need the hassle. This doesn't even include some of the imported ones that are fantastic values such as Armscor, Rock Island, STI Spartan etc.

YMMV

Cheers

WOW,ive heard of some external extractor issues and fit and finish blemishes as well as the poor customer service, but SENDING YOU THE WRONG PISTOL?? How is that possible/LEGAL?

Well i needed your post to show my misses that it isnt a true custom and to stop reading "kimber forum" posts,of course they are going to not admit they have a fair 1911.

Thank you for your honesty

Hey, thanks for the follow up. I'm sure to have P.O.ed some Kimber owners but I can only tell you my experience. I knew nothing about 1911s before I bought my first Kimber. I bought it because it was by far the nicest "looking" 1911 in the case. Now, after having bought and sold dozens of 1911/2011s and fired well over 100,000 rounds in competition, practice, plinking, etc thru 1911 pistols over 20 years I can tell you that there are a lot of companies that make great 1911s. All of them let lemons out into the market. My experience and the experience of many folks I know is that Kimber seems to let out FAR MORE of them. Good luck in the hunt for the Mrs. next 1911. My wife has an STI Guardian, Trojan, and Tactical, all in 9mm that she loves!

Cheers

I've had 9+ different Kimber "Custom" shop pistols. While others may have had different experiences than me, I've sold everyone of them and will never own another Kimber pistol again. The exterior cosmetics are really nice on some of them but upon closer inspection and use, each and every single one I owned had serious quality control issues. Usually relating to either slide-to-frame fit, barrel-to-slide fit, or barrel bushing fit. This doesn't even cover things like poorly fit or un-tensioned extractors, ambi-thumb safeties that didn't work, or slide stop pins that were grossly undersized. The few instances where I chose to deal with Kimber customer service instead of either fix the problem myself or send it to a gunsmith, they were rude and insulting, didn't fix the problem, or, in one case, sent back the WRONG GUN! Yes, you read that right. Fortunately I happened to have a photo of the pistol in question showing the serial number before I'd returned it. Prior to seeing the picture I'd taken, their head of customer service told me that they couldn't have possibly sent the wrong pistol and that ALL OF THE ATF FORMS AND PAPERWORK I'd filled out at the gunshop were mistaken. After seeing the photo he changed his tune...but not how rude and insulting he was.

While the early Clakamas stamped pistols are generally great examples of a nice production 1911, I'd avoid spending any real money on one. There are so many better built pistols on the market including Ruger, Remington, Springfield, and STI that you just don't need the hassle. This doesn't even include some of the imported ones that are fantastic values such as Armscor, Rock Island, STI Spartan etc.

YMMV

Cheers

WOW,ive heard of some external extractor issues and fit and finish blemishes as well as the poor customer service, but SENDING YOU THE WRONG PISTOL?? How is that possible/LEGAL?

Well i needed your post to show my misses that it isnt a true custom and to stop reading "kimber forum" posts,of course they are going to not admit they have a fair 1911.

Thank you for your honesty

Hey, thanks for the follow up. I'm sure to have P.O.ed some Kimber owners but I can only tell you my experience. I knew nothing about 1911s before I bought my first Kimber. I bought it because it was by far the nicest "looking" 1911 in the case. Now, after having bought and sold dozens of 1911/2011s and fired well over 100,000 rounds in competition, practice, plinking, etc thru 1911 pistols over 20 years I can tell you that there are a lot of companies that make great 1911s. All of them let lemons out into the market. My experience and the experience of many folks I know is that Kimber seems to let out FAR MORE of them. Good luck in the hunt for the Mrs. next 1911. My wife has an STI Guardian, Trojan, and Tactical, all in 9mm that she loves!

Cheers

Wow,thank you for fast reply. I live in florida and we have year round,bowling pin,steel challenge,two-gun and steel challemge matches,so every pistol we have is far from a safe queen. I like to "buy once,cry once" thats why im buying a KORTH/ Revolver since my buddy has 40k rounds with no frame stretch. I rather spend the money once like "snap-on" tools or BELL&ROSS watches and have them last for a generation.i dont want to pay $1200 for a Kimber and have it nickel and dime me so i appreciate your honesty.

Since you know her criteria it has to "look" as good as it is functional. She doesnt like any of my COLTs they are too "vanilla"for her

That "tommygun" .40 1911,pro raptor and Nighthawk customs are the only ones she has seemed to like so far.

ROGERS customs look nice but we are not a fan of spray and bake rail guns..HEIRLOOM/YOST is an option but the wait time is too long,we compete the first saturday of every month,so i would like to find a link,show her and buy it knowing its going to be bulletproof.

Any links you can post of maybe a lesser known 1911 custom builder who does great work. I had a THOROUGHBRED 1911 i have pictures of that she liked but i sold back when 1911heaven closed in arizona,BOB PATTISON was a great gunsmith just not a people person and he went out of business. But there has to be someone out there who is a great smith and can build a forged 1911,with flat top slide,notched trigger guard ,30LPI checkering without the 16month wait.

Any ideas for me?

We do like full dust cover SVI/STI but i think some shooting associations dont allow full dust covers.

Hell one newbie came with his pistol with a flashlight on it since thats the only holster he had and they made him shoot OPEN because they considered the flashlight a added weight for reduced muzzle flip..lmao he was shooting like 10sec strings.

Edited December 27, 2013 by Kimbertarget

[FJR05]

For info on that "Tommy Gun" you like the looks of, try http://abernathygunworks.com Jeff Abernathy is the one I believe that built that "TommyGun"

Good luck on your 1911 hunt.

[Rick88]

I think at this point it would be in your best interest to buy her what she wants :-)

[Kimbertarget]

Yeah i know im at that point of just buying the KIMBER but im going to email her all the negative stuff and just buy one i like..lol

I thought it was a good idea for her to get involved in my competiton shooting until i realized its double the ammo,gear,fees etc.

ABERNATHY im not familiar with,are they top shelf or just promoted by a Pro?

I found a NIGHTHAWK TALON cheap,i know its basically the guys who jumped ship from Wilson,so are they worth the money?

I guess i need to take a second look at STI.

Edited December 27, 2013 by Kimbertarget

[enroute]

Give these guys a look if she wants to cry once...

http://www.pt-partners.com/

[Frank34]

I've purchased several Kimbers over the years and noticed the quality and customer service go downhill. For a little more money go with an STI or a Dan Wesson. If you get a Kimber it will probably be fine out of the box but if it is not then you have to deal with the poor customer service.

Of course if your wife wants the Kimber then go for it.

[Kimbertarget]

Give these guys a look if she wants to cry once...

http://www.pt-partners.com/

Thank you for the referral, but the website is very dark and not laid out well to illustrate their custom work. It took me a while to fimd the drop down box in upper left hand corner,i hope their smithing is better than their webmaster

[Kimbertarget]

I have considered my 1st Dan Wesson or STI,leaning more to the STI single stacks. I wondered what happened to the older all steel ROCK RIVERS (not rock island) they were such a great 1911 and now that they ar AR-builders they dont deal with the old all steel 1911s i guess. The old NORINCOS (said to be made of railroad track steel) were a great platform for a custom build as well but those have dried up as well. Its odd how semi-production customs are what fills magazine articles and they are just part changers with spray/bake finish,RAIL and G-10/micarta grips with not much emphasis on reliability/accuracy.

Key criteria that her 1911 needs:

1) flat top slide (our Comp-Tac is for flat tops and we like the low glare especially here in sunny florida)

2) front and rear checkering 20-30LPI and if the back of the slide is checkered thats an aesthetic plus

3) non-rail and a plus would be a full dust cover like STI/BAER MONOLITH

4) dehorned with tight fit/finish

5) barrel lug,bushing and general lockup tight

6) hammer hooks/SEAR stoned 90* ,trigger 4-4.5lbs

7) NON M.I.M. (tool steel A2) Disco/sear,slide catch and extended mag release

6) quality iron sights (do not need fiber optic nor night sights,just competiton target sights) plus would be dove tailed front in case we want to swap it out.

You would think with all the "custom shops" out there someone would make a competition "practical" or "target" pistol with these features since 1911 owners upgrade to these mods,so why not offer them from the factory? Since people like different checkering etc, just give options upon ordering and then custom tailor the sights and checkering or make them an option as a different model nomenclature.

It looks like im going to have to buy another used 1911 and build it to her preferences. NIGHTHAWK CUSTOM and WILSON,BAER,BROWN,HEIRLOOM all have models we like just not with all the features on one and for $4000, i may as well just have one built in the finish with the checkering,hammer,trigger,sights of her choice.

I did have oneother question i heard DAVE PRUITT (GRANDMASTER) did some gunsmithing and he is local to me, does anyone have one of his customs or know someone who has had him do some work? He has a great reputation as a competitor and a general nice guy,it would be great to hear how his custom work is.

Thank you guys formyour input and happy holidays

Edited December 28, 2013 by Kimbertarget

[cnote]

Buy her what she wants, not what you want. If it won't run, sell it and consider the loss a rental fee.

Her being happy will outweight u being right!!!!

If it doesn't work, then you can say I told you so....?

[bountyhunter]

My misses "wants" this KIMBER PRO RAPTOR II "custom shop" 1911

my misses shot a friends "custom" pro raptor II,it had a matte black slide but a brushed satin silver frame and light wood grips,chain link checkering,ambi safety,night sights and a bushingless barrel in a commander size 1911 for $899. I found one that is 90% N.R.A. Condition at local gunshop.

This isn't really a gun question: $900 to make your wife happy? That's a no brainer.

My personal opinion is that Kimber is about par with the other mass makers like Colt, SA, Para etc who fit guns with a mill file and a hammer.

But if she wants one because she thinks it's pretty..... that's a good enough reason to buy it.

Happy wife, happy life.

I wish my wife liked guns.

[Kimbertarget]

No no i should have made it clear she competes in USPSA as well as steel challenge. She "prefers" to have an aesthetically pleasing 1911 (KIMBER PRO RAPTOR II TWOTONE) than my plain blued Colts. So shes not being pretentious about it, shes needs it to be reliable since we shoot often and out a member of Volusia gun/hunt club. Ive already heard the the late 1990 Kimbers are the eay to go and when they went external extractors they had teething problems so im not sure i would buy a new Kimber now regardless.

I had someone PM me who is local and give me some good names for smiths who can do my crowning/cutting/checkering so if all else fails im just going to build yet another 1911 custom. I never owned a Kimber and the fit and finish was acceptable for a $900 O.T.D. KIMBER PRO RAPTOR TWO it has a two-tone finish, looked like a matte silver frame with a black slide and light colored rosewood grips,it is very easy on the eyes. However im not going to buy it when i could find a used BAER for a few hundred dollars more and know that it will be a reliable tack driver.

Thank you guys for all the help.

Im not buying a KIMBER.

[Kimbertarget]

Buy her what she wants, not what you want. If it won't run, sell it and consider the loss a rental fee.

Her being happy will outweight u being right!!!!

If it doesn't work, then you can say I told you so....

You guys are making me feel guilty about not buying the KIMBER. I guess i am kind of buying what i want too. But i just dont want her to compete and be frustrated with FTE/FTFs and then have to wait while i sell on gunbroker.

Maybe if someone local has a KIMBER and is a member of Volusia gun club and lets her shoot a box of ammo through different mags maybe i will reconsider...man...i cant even have her look at this forum all you guys are on her side..LMAO

Do you know how much money she has cost me over our relationship? Im sure if you have a misses you know and since the 1911 is not a pair of shoes or jewelry im going to make sure its something that will last and she can enjoy competing with

[EkuJustice]

The old series 1 guns are the nicer ones. The EARLY series II aren't too bad but still have the added safety which can cause issues in that if the part under the rear signt breaks off the gun looks to function fine and dry fires fine but will not release the firing pin. That can be removed and the gun will simply have a hole in the slide and will not be IDPA legal. The series I guns were all built like they should be with without the extra worthless safety