waktasz Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 Yep, that's what I meant. The other frames I've seen have rectangular cutouts on the frame under the grips and the para just has 2 rather small holes on each side. editted to note: I spoke with George at EGW. Here is what he had to say. Hi Matt, We have lightened Para's under the grips before, also the main spring housing can be pared down. Lets see what it weigh's when were done, we can go from there. Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harmon Posted February 10, 2005 Share Posted February 10, 2005 i bought a used glock 22 from police officer, 320 dollars. KKM barrel 145 dollars. tungsten guide rod/ 15 pound recoil spring 45 dollars dawson FO sights, 130 dollars THE brass magwell, 60 dollars. 4 mags (20 rounders) @ 50 bucks each. did the infamous 30 cent trigger job w/extra 3.5 pound connector glock extended mag release at 5 bucks, standard slide release. .. the only thing really needed to make the glock competitive is the sights, trigger and mag realease...and of course the mags. btw the KKM barrel shoots 2 inch groups at 25 yards. money can be saved if your pistol comes with 15 round mags, you use heine sights instead of dawson, no mag well, no tungsten guide rod. with plated bullets and once fired 40 brass being as cheap as it is, you could use the stock barrel and not really be out much more money on reloading components. the biggest downfall i have found on the glock as a limited gun is the light weight. i have the heavy magwell and tungsten guide rod, the gun still has quite a bit of snap to it.. despite that, with 170 pf ammo, today i had a seven yard USPSA target, i shot two As in .97 seconds. a .82 draw with a .15 split, and the gun is easy to transition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFD Posted February 10, 2005 Author Share Posted February 10, 2005 That sounds like a nice setup. When I started this thread I was almost just trying to invent a reason for a new gun. Was still suffering the after effects of burnout and hadn't been shooting much either. Since then I shot several matches and have gotten fired up again. Based on what I've been shooting (1911s) and am used to, as well as what I simply WANT, I'm going with the Para P-16 Ltd. Should have it shortly thanks to one of the great guys here. Have even shot a couple of matches in Limited division using my SS Kimber. The last match I managed to beat up on a couple of Open shooters and more than a few Limited shooters. Could have been they all had gun problems, but I hope not. Thanks to a series of gun problems, that match will likely be the only time I see my name ahead of s2000red. We were at a similar skill level at one time, then he shifted to overdrive while I've continued plodding along. I believe the lighter weight of the glock is a real negative for me. The Kb issue, real or perceived, has formed in my brain and I doubt I'd ever feel good about the glock without changing barrels (replacing a brand new barrel to be able to shoot lead and not have Kb problems is another really big issue for me). I've already got 8 lbs of Titegroup, 1K of the Rainier 180 JHPS, a buttload of Winchester primers, and I've already cast/lubed/sized a couple K of 178 grain TCs for my practice loads. Once again, I've seen the Lee 6 cavity mould is 500% better than their double and single cavity moulds. So far I've never had a problem with one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s2000red Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 Hey Jerry, Thanks for the comments. I tried something on the gun and had terrible results. However, gun problems or not... you beat me. By the way, starting in March, Ken and I are going to run another USPSA match at SPSA on the fourth Saturday. Jerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eye Cutter Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 I just got my P16-40 back from the platers and here it is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eye Cutter Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eye Cutter Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eye Cutter Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3quartertime Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 Hate to jump on a dying thread but just one comment,,, In the Glock vs P16-40 class we have our own version of Dave S. Flex has made GM with a very mildly altered G35, and I bet if you handed him an out of the box 35 with Hiene sights he could shoot circles around most here. So if it is an equipment race the Glock wins,,,nuff said. I've recently came back to a P16-40. I've tried several blasters and I'm just more comfortable with the steel framed double stacks. My goal is to build a double stack Caspian for limited when I can afford it!!! But as far as steel framed double stacks go I don't think you can do it better for the price than a Para. Over time and rounds you will replace parts, but you will tinker with any gun. The para frame is a good base to build a limited gun. It may not be as durable as a better frame but for most of us we will never wear it out. The internals are a matter of choice. I've had very limited problems with Para internals. All documented here. Other parts may be better, but if you find that the type of sear in your blaster is holding you back then you are much more in tune than I... Will a P16 hold you back? Doubt it. Will blaster envy wreck your checkbook? Definitly!!! BTW... If you are going with a Para. Better get those STI for Para tubes now!!! Just found 3 at a great price. They won't last long!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFD Posted February 11, 2005 Author Share Posted February 11, 2005 I'm happy to hear more positive comments on the para, as well as having the chance to see a few here. I'm not looking for a custom STI for a Para price, I just want a gun that will let my performance be the only thing holding me back in Limited, which means it has to be reliable and accurate enough for the game. My Kimber Custom Target with no Nowlin internals, stock adjustables, Alumnagrips/TrueGrips, factory barrel, and majorly hogged out S&A magwell has served me well in L-10 (not bad in Limited), so that's what I'm looking for in the Para. Two things I can say for my Kimber is that it's accurate and it always runs. As far as the internals go, I've not above replacing parts just because I put the same stuff in every 1911 I own. This is a proven gun, so I'll just stick to personal preference items like the mag release, grips, or anything that feels wierd. The switch to a double stack means that most likely everything is going to feel a little wierd, so I'm going to take my time making any judgements. I'm going to stick with Para tubes because I want the capacity and I'm cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFD Posted February 11, 2005 Author Share Posted February 11, 2005 s2000red I can't say that for a split second I wasn't secretly pleased to finish ahead of you, but your gun problems resulted in a finish that hardly reflected your true skill level. That's my perspective. Your perspective ought to be that your finish was freaking amazing with the problems you had, and reflected well on your skill level. I still had one of my best matches ever. There were a lot of good shooters there, and the stages at that match always tend to prick at my weaknesses. Barring the mike that was triggered by my "mud slide", I practiced good visual patience and shot a solid match. I wimped out on the classifier (I was capable of skipping the reload), but still shot what looks to be a solid "B". The 4th Saturday match is great news. I have a feeling that when my new plant starts up in March, I may have a hard time shooting on the Saturdays, so another option is good. I might actually have to shoot IDPA to get trigger time before the sectional. That's why I haven't offered to help with the match. When my schedule is under control, I'll be there to help you guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Thompson Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 I just got my new P16 limited today and it seems fine. Fit and finish seems much better than the last para's I had and the mag release is metal now. I bought five mags with and they actually work. The "Sterling" finish looks frinkin cool. Lets see how long this all lasts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eye Cutter Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 with Rosewood grips Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eye Cutter Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eye Cutter Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eye Cutter Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandankenpo Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 I own both guns S_I, and para, The Para wasn't as accurate as the S_I right out of the box, but all things are fixable, both of mine are reliable, I would shoot some of your friends guns before deciding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OttoBon100 Posted February 12, 2005 Share Posted February 12, 2005 I love my Para 16-40. Bought it from Dawson Precision and it was a special work-up ("Dawson-Jarrett", as in Todd Jarrett) they were selling. I'm not sure if they still have it but you could check their web site. I shoot USPSA Limited with it and LOVE it. Dawson did some "special" stuff to it. Great gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted February 12, 2005 Share Posted February 12, 2005 What "special stuff"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hopalong Posted February 12, 2005 Share Posted February 12, 2005 John, I have a "NEW" Para with the Sterling finish on it too, I am hoping that it (the finish) holds up as the gun is quite the looker. If it holds up as well as the last two I have used I will be well satisfied (again). The first one had close to 100,000 rounds through it when I aquired another just to use as a back up, when the second gun showed up one of the guys just getting into USPSA here offered to buy the first. so away it went (almost 3 years of shooting on it when I sold it, now it is up to 5 years of 3 matches a month + practice and it has only needed Recoil springs, 1 bushing 1replaced rear sight(pin broke) and lots of cleaning. The second has 1 1/2 years of shooting on it and about 60,000 rounds through it (90% lead on both guns, the rifling looks great) and All I have done to it is replace recoil springs, 1rear sight(seeing a pattern here?) and lots of cleaning.( It by the way has a new owner too, as of this week). This will have me down to 1 para "new" p16 as mentioned before and 1 Caspian slide, S_I frame Limited gun. Who needs them bottom feeders anyway when Smith & Wesson is still making Revolvers? But in all seriousness everyone needs at least one of all the types of guns Para Ordance has its place in USPSA, I will recomend one to all people wanting to start this game, it is the most cost effective way to get into it and shoot limited / L-10. The people I have recomended it to that have bought one I always tell them... " buy a para ordanance P-16 40 Limited, if you don't like it I will buy it from you." I have not had to buy one yet......... SAM KEEN Note: This is NOT a blanket offer...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runin Ronin Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 I love my Para 16-40. Bought it from Dawson Precision and it was a special work-up ("Dawson-Jarrett", as in Todd Jarrett) they were selling. I'm not sure if they still have it but you could check their web site. I shoot USPSA Limited with it and LOVE it. Dawson did some "special" stuff to it. Great gun. Too bad these aren't available in California. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the duck of death Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 I have a P14 45 Limited w/Bar Sto barrel, a SVI Infinity 40 and a Glock 23 w/KKM barrel. I shoot the G23, it has worked all the time every time for over 60K rounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFD Posted February 18, 2005 Author Share Posted February 18, 2005 Got my Para yesterday!!! Can't thank hopalong enough for parting with it. Loaning me the mag may have been a mistake, as I'm starting to get an emotionally attached I'll get a pic up as soon as Dawson decides to ship my magwell and last extension. Will stick with Dawson extensions in the future, but won't be buying them from Dawson. Loaded up the loaner mag (Para tube, follower, & spring + Dawson extension) and found it held 20+1 and reloads without effort. Maybe could cram another round in it, but I didn't want to torture a loaner mag. Did notice the follower has been modified, which I'll likely duplicate with my followers. Used a scotch-bright pad on the interior of my para tubes, deburred the para followers (did not modify any more than that), stuck the para springs in, and attached the Dawson extensions. Both held 20+1 easy with absolutely no effort to reload. I hand cycled both mags at a high rate of speed and they fed perfectly (hope it's the same Saturday with live fire). I'm thinking that if I duplicate hopalong's follower I can probably get one more round in. Contrary to what I've heard, I didn't think the effort it took to load these mags was any worse than a Power 10 .45 mag. Tonight I'll likely put some Flitz on a sock and use it to further polish the interior of the tubes. I loaded up some test rounds last week and confirmed that the long loaded 180 rainiers/titegroup ammo chambers smoothly. Will have to seat my 175 grain cast TCs deeper to keep the bullet off the rifling. I've still got to recheck this load to make sure I'm not going to create a pressure problem, as this bullet has to be seated to a standard OAL. I think I was conservative with the charge, so I hope I won't be pulling bullets. I actually bought some factory ammo (winchester white box 165s), and it looks like the gun/mag combo can handle them. This is the first factory ammo I've bought in years. If I'm lucky, I'll confirm that I have both a cast bullet and a jacketed bullet load tomorrow, as I'll be shooting a bunch of test loads. Makes me glad I bought that Master Giga Mega Gamma (whatever) Shooting Chrony last year, as the print-out function is handy. Feel like I robbed Midsouth, as it was only $145. I'll post details on the loads when I chrono them. I was freaking a little over grip options for the gun. No trugrips are available for the para and I'm not interested in trying to make STI trugrips work as I've read here that it won't look how I want it to look. Thought about getting rubber grips, as my Kimber factory rubber grips felt pretty good on my L-10 gun, at least until I tried my first set of trugrips. The gun came with skateboard tape on the front off the grip. The feel of the tape and the para grips is pretty good, so I'll stick with that for now. I did strip the old tape off and replace it with a piece cut off of a 1911 trugrip. Slightly better feel and a perfect color match with the para grips. Figured with the para grips being so thin, I wouldn't be able to run the trugrip piece under the grip, but I found that I could and can't tell that I did it. Also have the gun modified for my ghost holster. 3 turns of a screw is all I need to do to switch between my SS L-10 gun and the Para. I'm pretty happy about that. I thank everyone for their help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hopalong Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 Well Jerry..... It's been 3 weeks...... I know you have shot it....... Where was it that I saw they weren't any good ???? Let us know how that Piece of $hit gun works, feals, ect.... IMHO Para is best entry level gun available HANDS Down, when a new shooter is good enough to where the gun is holding them back (Yeah right what does Todd Jarrett shoot?) then they can spend all that $$$$ on a CUSTOM Blaster !!!!! I broke out My Other para out this weekend (17 months since I have shot a bottomfeeder) and had ZERO problems out of it (brand new gun with 20-30 rounds through it before the match). Hope you like it, don't work so much you don't get to enjoy it !!! Hopalong And.... Black Dawson mag base goes along with the Red and silver so don't get too attached !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waktasz Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 I forgot to post pics of mine in this thread after it came back from EGW. Here it is again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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