625 Revolver and Clays Ignition Issues

[DavidSnethkamp]

I was wondering if anyone else has encountered my issue.

I am currently shooting my 625 with 4.0 grains of Clays behind either a Montana Gold 230 gr RN or Berry's 230 gr RN.

Federal primers are in place and all of the brass is my own Starline.

OAL is 1.250 and crimp is either a Lee FCD or a RCBS taper Die

Currently I make power factor at about 168 or so.

The issue is a steady increase in light loads. Currently about 1 in one hundred. Light being you hear a poof instead of a bang and can hear the round almost bounce off the paper. Currently they have all cleared the barrel.

I have used this load for about 20,000 rounds thru the gun in the last year with what seems like a steady increase in "poofs"

I am 100 % confident the powder is in the case. The press is lit like a christmas tree and I look into EVERY case to verify powder levels.

Initially I thought I had a bad keg of Clays, but the problem is continuing into a second 4 pounder.

I can only narrow the issue down to bad powder or primers. At this point I a really considering switching to Bullseye for a while, but would appreciate others experience and input.

Thanks

[DougCarden]

It is most likely either powder contamination or light crimp. If you use case lube, you might be getting some in with the powder. If you are using lube, then try the Ziploc bag to lube the brass.

Secondly, check your crimp. Shoot multiple moons of 4-5 rounds, and leave the last couple round in the moons. Check and see if you are getting bullet jump. If so, bell your case less and use a little more crimp.

Good luck,

DougC

[DavidSnethkamp]

Thanks Doug,

No case lube, I run them all dry.

At one point I thought the case jump was the issue with the Berry's, I noticed I was having some creep with them. I went ahead and switched to the Lee FCD for them and the creep stopped, but not the light rounds.

As a check, I switched to the Montana golds with the RCBS taper crimp die. No creep, but still the darn light loads.

Both great thoughts though.

[cas]

Edit: (Oops... I didnt read far enough down before posting)

Are you sure it's happening with BOTH bullets and not just the Berry's? Undersized bullets (real common with Berry) won't have a good crimp and will give funny ignition, they'll also pull under recoil and you'll end up with much more case volume (leading to low pressure and squibs.)

Theres all sorts of reasons for it, but happening on a regular basis doesn't make sense. That doesn't sound like dirt or spider nests in a case, that sounds like a short charge cycle and a low powder charge.

A Berry's induced "poof".

It's probably not making major if it won't shoot through the target stakes.

Edited December 12, 2013 by cas

[Carmoney]

Around here, we call that "Tappe Ammo."

You can stop it with a decent catcher's mitt.

[DavidSnethkamp]

Well, I will admit, my rounds are the source of much discussion, but hey, they make major thru the chrono. Even at Level II matches.

People really enjoy watching them go down range too. On a foggy morning it's like a golden rainbow, LMAO

[DavidSnethkamp]

At one point, I was sure it was the Berry's. I even had two fall out of the brass when I ejected a partial clip.

The crimp still mic'ed out so the die was still true, but I got a batch of small bullets, thats for sure.

I thought I had it solved when I went to the Montana's, but had two poofs in a batch of 500.

Better then before, but still way too frequent. It also seems I am shooting slower worrying about squibs.

[DavidSnethkamp]

I am sure the rules only say it has to pass thru the paper

Why waste powder, lolol

[ZackJones]

You want to try some Bayou Bullets? to see if a different bullet makes any difference? Also with your LCD how much crimp are you applying? I want to make sure I'm applying enough crimp on my loads.

[DavidSnethkamp]

I tried the Bayou's at one point and liked them, except for two issues:

One, indoors everyone kept checking the furnace thinking it was on fire (the Bayou's tend to smell like a burning circuit board)

Two, for some reason, I was actually getting a high rate of leading from them. In all fairness to the bullets, I did not fine tune the load, so its not a good indicator.

I actually have 500 ibjeheads on my desk at the moment I am going to try out.

I crimp to the strong side of 4.7, typically .469 to .47

[Tom E]

I had an issue like this. It turned out to be a piece of crud, looked like the foam material of the cap seal. I found it as I was pulling bullets. My "light ones" would leave the bullet about in the middle of the barrel. I think (but can't be sure) that the piece of crud had spent some time in the powder measure slider.

[DavidSnethkamp]

I did take the powder throw apart, LNL press, and gave it a through cleaning. I was verifying charges though thru pulling cases from the press and dumping the powder to verify, so I doubt that was it.

[ZackJones]

I tried the Bayou's at one point and liked them, except for two issues:

Gotcha. I was going to send you some for testing if you wanted to try them to try and rule out bullets as the cause. Also thanks for the crimp info. I may try to tighten mine up a little.

[Akkid17]

I was using rainiers for a little bit and they seemed to work well, I was using a redding profile crimp die on them. I bought a lee FCD in anticipation of haveing some creep with the slick plated bullets but I did not come across any evidence of jump issues. Have you tried any other crimp dies? Sounds like you've elimated powder and probably bullet type from the list, also did you have the issue with the bayous going poof? May bring the bullets back to being the possible culprit.

[Steve RA]

The bullet in the pic doesn't look like it's getting equal rifling impressions around it. May be that undersize bullets could be the culprit.

[DavidSnethkamp]

I am mostly leaning towards bullet / crimp issues.

I find it hard to believe so many Federal primers or so many pounds of Clays are the root cause.

With what I have read in other threads, I think I will dump the Lee FCD and go back to the RCBS taper crimp die.

With my Ruger Alaskan 454, I had to go to a Redding profile crimp die. Does anyone have any experience or thoughts on these for the 45 ACP in a 625?

[EEH]

I tried hard to make major with 4.0 clays but in my gun with my chrono.it had to be at 4.2 with zero bullets,

And you can tell it it light loads like a mouse farts..

[earplug]

The bullets might be jumping out of the case on recoil, Then when you fire that chamber you get the mouse fart.

Has the problem ever happened on the first or second round after a reload?

[Akkid17]

Profile crimp die works well with the rainiers plated bullets, but I use bayous now and they work with any crimp type. I also use the redding deprime and resize and it necks it down even further at the mouth so there's a ton of neck tension on the bullet but you have to lube the cases.

[pskys2]

Just last summer I found a Federal Primer with the anvil upside down. I always check the primers before loading them into the primer tubes.

But I doubt if it's the primers with the way you describe it.

You say you're using all of your own Starline's, I would suggest the next few times marking the case and see if it recreates with that particular case.

Edited December 14, 2013 by pskys2

[DougCarden]

Rob Leatham told me at nationals that he got better accuracy with a roll crimp fyi. I dont know what jacketed bullet he used. When loading the berry 185hbrn I get best accuracy with a .462 taper crimp. Get rid of the fcd and try a regular taper crimp. It might help.

Good luck,

DougC

[pskys2]

I've also found a Roll Crimp to be more accurate. Without a cannelure it just doesn't work as well with Jacketed though. Does make a difference with Plated though.

[Akkid17]

I've also found a Roll Crimp to be more accurate. Without a cannelure it just doesn't work as well with Jacketed though. Does make a difference with Plated though.

Agreed on the plated, I was stunned with the accuracy with the roll crimp on the rainiers, i was used to a 6" plus group at 20 yd in semi autos using plated and I kept them all in the small "A" box at 20 with the 625 unsupported. Money!

Edited December 15, 2013 by Akkid17

[Para super]

I have to share some info on this problem. I had 2 loads early on that had this squib load problem. It was in a 45 auto with 4 grains of Clays with 230 grain lead. I have'nt seen any more. There was unburned powder in the barrel but the bullet did clear. Not enough power to cycle the slide. It was Federal primers also.

Maybe some odd combination of the powder and the Federal primers? I think I would switch powders. Which I think I will also. Bullseye or WST

[DavidSnethkamp]

Thinking back on it, I do recall unburned powder in the barrel a couple times. Makes no sense to me.

Perhaps the root of the problem is the crimp / bullet size, not holding long enough to allow a complete burn of the powered.

This weekend I loaded up some ibejiheads with a .490 crimp. While it was only 60 rounds, they seemed to run well. Perhaps the slightly larger diameter of the lead vs the plated bullet let the powder work better. I think I will run them this week for a USPSA match.

I am hearing Bullseye calling my name though. I just hate the thought of 12 pound sod powder just sitting there.