driver8M3 Posted December 1, 2004 Share Posted December 1, 2004 here's something that i havent seen mentioned yet: i've lightened my mag release spring. -take the mag release out -pull the metal spring out with needle nose pliers (the "spring" is just a straight piece of metal) -bend the spring slightly while holding the bottom 1/2 of the spring in pliers (so youre only bending the top 1/2) -re-insert spring so that the bend, if looking down into the mag well from the rear of the gun, looks like this ( (exaggerated to show direction...a minor bend is sufficient). i've been using my modified mag release for about a year. i hadnt thought about it until i practiced mag changes with my new G34 a couple of weeks ago. big difference...the lighter version is much better (IMO). only issue is loaded table starts. you've got to be conscious of not pushing the gun into the table so you dont drop the mag as you pick up the gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDean Posted December 1, 2004 Share Posted December 1, 2004 The G20 would be a top option for Limited if I didn't already have time in my the G35. It isn't legal (with the 40 barrel) for Production, however. Sure it is Kyle. 21.3 Replacement barrels allowed provided barrel length is same as original factory standard. Heavy barrels and/or barrel sleeves not allowed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincent Posted December 1, 2004 Share Posted December 1, 2004 The takeup on a Glock is part of the drop safety and the firing pin block safeties. You can't remove the take-up without disabling the safeties. Your best bet is to just use dry fire and range time to make the initial take-up on the first shot a non-issue. Once you get the trigger job done the reset will be short enough to not be a problem. With a Glock the trigger actually presses out against your finger so it is easy to let the spring pressure push your finger too far out if you don't work on it. On a Glock this makes the "constant contact" reset technique work better than slapping for me. Trigger control is a different animal on the Glock and will require a transition from an Eddie 1911. Luckily 9mm ammo and snap caps are cheap. I personally think dry fire is the way to go. Really get into the trigger, how it feels and what you need to do to keep the sights aligned while working the trigger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDean Posted December 1, 2004 Share Posted December 1, 2004 You can reduce the take-up easily without compromising the safties of the design. The thing you don't want to do is limit the fwd travel of the trigger. The firing-pin (striker) safety plunger is activated (pushed up) by the trigger bar when the trigger is fully forward. When you start to move the trigger rearward, the plunger is allowed to move down and out of the way of the striker. Once the trigger has moved enough to the rear, the connector cams the trigger bar down which releases the striker. The trick is to stop the triggers rearward travel once the striker has been released. The "Ghost" connector does that. Easy to install too. The next GlockJock trick is make the striker release even earlier than the factory intended. This will further reduce the over-all travel of the trigger, but the downside is that it will reduce the compression of the striker spring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincent Posted December 1, 2004 Share Posted December 1, 2004 We are saying the same thing, just using different terms. I'm using the 1911 definitions of take-up, over-travel, reset, etc. My meaning of take-up is the amount the trigger has to be pulled backward before the firing pin is released. This part of the Glock trigger pull is difficult to reduce significantly without affected safeties. What you are describing is what I call overtravel by which I mean the amount the trigger continues to move after the firing pin is released. The overtravel on a Glock is easy to reduce via several methods including a fixed overtravel stop, adjustable overtravel stop, the GhostRocket connector, etc. When done properly these modifications will not disable any of the Glocks built in safeties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDean Posted December 1, 2004 Share Posted December 1, 2004 We are saying the same thing, just using different terms. I'm using the 1911 definitions of take-up, over-travel, reset, etc. Me too.. My meaning of take-up is the amount the trigger has to be pulled backward before the firing pin is released. This part of the Glock trigger pull is difficult to reduce significantly without affected safeties. What safety is affected? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted December 1, 2004 Share Posted December 1, 2004 The G20 would be a top option for Limited if I didn't already have time in my the G35. It isn't legal (with the 40 barrel) for Production, however. Sure it is Kyle. 21.3 Replacement barrels allowed provided barrel length is same as original factory standard. Heavy barrels and/or barrel sleeves not allowed. It is good for Limited, but not Production...according to Amidon (bring your $100). I tried to convince him with multiple emails. (no luck) Seems like the "official opinion" is that Glock doesn't make a model G20 in 40S&W. You could, however, shoot 40 out of the 10mm barrel if you were so inclined. I did get that out of the conversation. (making the case of shooting 38 thru a 357 wheel gun and such). Weird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted December 1, 2004 Share Posted December 1, 2004 TL, You shouldn't have issues with mags falling out. If you do...buy new mags (knowing you, I would guess that you'd rather spend $20 than mess with them all day). New "hicaps" should drop right out. I also think you'd like the sight radius and balance of the G34...closer to your 1911's. I tungsten rod would help the mousefart factor. (so would shooting 40 instead on 9, IMO...but then you gotta reaload all the time) I like some over-travel. But, you won't want all that is there. There are ways to limit the forward travel as well...but you want to be careful to keep the safeties working. (Don't over work it.) I'd likely suggest skipping that part...unless you just can't practice it away. Which shouldn't be a problem...if you ride the trigger to reset...instead of slapping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincent Posted December 1, 2004 Share Posted December 1, 2004 (edited) Ok TDean, I'll give it a shot. This is how I see it and I may be wrong: a) Starting with the gun in the hand, action set, with the finger off the trigger. The very first part of the Glock trigger pull depresses the trigger safety lever built into the trigger "shoe" itself. In this part the trigger bar doesn't move - only the trigger safety lever. (Safety #1) This part of the pull doesn't fit well into the 1911 verbage but I'm calling it part of the take-up. Next with the trigger safety lever depressed into the trigger shoe, the trigger shoe itself is moved rearward and therefore so is the trigger bar. The trigger bar as it moves back clears the drop safety notch in the "front" (or muzzle end) of the ejector/trigger housing window. (Safety #2) This is the next part of what I'm calling the take-up. c) As the trigger bar continues to move back it engages the firing pin safety plunger in the slide until it is completely depressed and provides a forward path for the firing pin. (Safety #3) This is the last part of what I'm calling the take-up. d) Then the trigger bar contacts the connector which starts to push the rear of the trigger bar down. Since the trigger bar is out of the drop safety notch the trigger bar is able to move downward in the deeper part of the trigger housing window. The effort on the connector as well as the final "cocking" effort of the firing pin is what I would call the creep. e) Then the trigger bar/crucible/sear slips out from under the firing pin. The firing pin moves forward and fires the gun. This is what I would call the break. f) After the firing pin is released, the trigger bar continues to travel rearward until it bottoms out. This is what I'm calling the overtravel part of the pull. When an overtravel stop is in place, the stop restricts this rearward movement. This is where the Ghost Rocket and the Lone Wolf overtravel stop help improve the trigger action. g) Reset by letting the trigger/trigger bar/etc go forward enough for the parts to re-engage. h) Assuming you only let the trigger out enough to reset you only have to pull it back a little bit to re-fire the gun. Since the trigger hasn't gone back as much it also doesn't have to go foward as much to reset, thus by reducing overtravel you also reduce the reset distance. This is what I would call the reset distance. Only when you let the trigger back out past the reset distance do you get back into any of what I'm calling take-up. This slight difference is where I think we are getting mixed up. I'm not counting the reset in the so called "take-up" of subsequent shots. --- With the description above, IMO if you mess with any of the take-up areas described above in a-c you might disable one or more of the three listed safeties. By working only in areas d-h you should not affect the listed safeties. Although if you play with the firing pin/sear area a little to much you can easily get doubles or worse. --- Do you have a good method to reduce the take-up in areas a-c? I am no expert and am always interested in new things. Just like I'm really curious about the Vanek trigger job. I can't even imagine how to get a repeatable trigger pull that light that is not primer sensitive. Vanek surely knows something I haven't thought of yet. Regards, -Vincent Edited December 2, 2004 by vincent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted December 2, 2004 Share Posted December 2, 2004 Stupid question time: Aside from replacing Glock's atrocious plastic sights, if all you M/GM's simply took a Glock out of the box and shot it, would you drop down in classification? Would you stop winning stages/matches? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted December 2, 2004 Author Share Posted December 2, 2004 Don't know about regular M/GM shooters, but Sevigny can win with a box stock gun... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chp5 Posted December 2, 2004 Share Posted December 2, 2004 Don't know about regular M/GM shooters, but Sevigny can win with a box stock gun... True, but Dave is a man of steel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chp5 Posted December 2, 2004 Share Posted December 2, 2004 Stupid question time: Aside from replacing Glock's atrocious plastic sights, if all you M/GM's simply took a Glock out of the box and shot it, would you drop down in classification? Would you stop winning stages/matches? The same question is equally applicable to a factory stock S_I. Does anyone NOT mess with their pistols? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Anderson Posted December 2, 2004 Share Posted December 2, 2004 The Glock 20 with a .40 cal barrel would not be legal in Production because Glock doesn't make a Glock 20 in .40 S&W. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted December 2, 2004 Share Posted December 2, 2004 Stupid question time: Aside from replacing Glock's atrocious plastic sights, if all you M/GM's simply took a Glock out of the box and shot it, would you drop down in classification? Would you stop winning stages/matches? I don't know about the winning matches thing --- but the trigger work certainly helps on accuracy intensive stuff. My G34 mods are: Bo-mar drop in sights --- the rear protrudes past the end of the slide. The top half of the front sight has been thinned (stepped) to .090, leaving the bottom half at factory spec (I think around .140). When holding the gun level, I only see the skinny portion of the blade in the notch, if I can see the step, I know I'm shooting high. THE Accessories Tungsten Rod and ISMI 13lb. spring with three coils clipped. EricW's TRU-Grit grip tape --- the best grip mod ever! Lightning Strike Striker Safety Plunger and Spring. Wolff Reduced Power Striker Spring. About an hour of polish time. I'm sure I could get a lighter trigger pull, but this one's smooth. I've got grip tape on the base pads of all my ten round mags. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted December 2, 2004 Share Posted December 2, 2004 Stupid question time: Aside from replacing Glock's atrocious plastic sights, if all you M/GM's simply took a Glock out of the box and shot it, would you drop down in classification? Would you stop winning stages/matches? Yes. Seriously...I think the stock trigger sucks...along with the sights. Just like any gun that has lawyers, accountants, and sales people driving design (no offense to those fields...all very respectable in my opinion). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRG65 Posted December 2, 2004 Share Posted December 2, 2004 Stupid question time: Aside from replacing Glock's atrocious plastic sights, if all you M/GM's simply took a Glock out of the box and shot it, would you drop down in classification? Would you stop winning stages/matches? Eric, I'll give you a numerical example. With my "modified" 34 I will consistently shoot the IDPA classification course in the 90's, my best was in the low-mid eighties. I aquired a 17 for when I decided to shoot totally stock. This 17 is from the late 80s, stock controls, no trigger work and a pair of worn out trijicons, the gun was as I purchased it and the parts seemed to be original or at least replaced w/ OEM. I shot 106 and 102. At least a 10 second difference. The low 80's run with my 34 had come only a few weeks earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turtle Posted December 2, 2004 Share Posted December 2, 2004 TL, If you have a problem with "newer" mags dropping free then here's a little thing to check out: Look at the notch in the mag and suspect that your mags have a bur in them where the mag body is slamming against the catch. The bur will be on bottom of the notch and can easily be trimmed off. It's important to not touch the top of the notch though as that is the part that holds the mag in. Removing the bur off the bottom of the notch should do the trick, unless you're using old non-drop free mags. Russ, i've lightened my mag release spring. Wus-a-matta-u!? You no strong enuff to use the stock spring? I wouldn't do that for the reason that you mentioned: pre mature ejection! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
driver8M3 Posted December 2, 2004 Share Posted December 2, 2004 Wus-a-matta-u!? You no strong enuff to use the stock spring? and all this time you thought my backwards mags were the secret behind my (horrible) reloads. now you know...its weak thumbs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dead Buff Posted December 2, 2004 Share Posted December 2, 2004 Since I've heard the 2 strongest muscles in a male body are in his left thumb and right toe (don't ask, you might not like the answer) shoot "southpawed" in future... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDean Posted December 2, 2004 Share Posted December 2, 2004 The Glock 20 with a .40 cal barrel would not be legal in Production because Glock doesn't make a Glock 20 in .40 S&W. Can somebody quote the portion of the rulebook on where it says that I can't put a .40 caliber barrel into a factory designed .40 caliber gun? The rulebook says nothing about "chambering" or "cartridge" in Production division that I know of. As with stage design, I like the concept that unless the rules specifically prohibit something, it's OK to do (within reason). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDean Posted December 2, 2004 Share Posted December 2, 2004 Do you have a good method to reduce the take-up in areas a-c? I am no expert and am always interested in new things. Just like I'm really curious about the Vanek trigger job. I can't even imagine how to get a repeatable trigger pull that light that is not primer sensitive. Vanek surely knows something I haven't thought of yet.Regards, -Vincent I wouldn't mess with the fwd reset of a Glock trigger, just the rearward take-up and overtravel. Your're right Vincent about the safety plunger being depressed by the trigger bar as it moves rearward. I think I originally described it as dropping down to be deactivated. Thanks. Either way, with the trigger fully foward, all safties work 100%. It's only when you start pulling it to the rear that safties are deactivated. What I try to do is limit the length of pull while still cocking the striker enough to get enough ooomph the ignite the primers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincent Posted December 2, 2004 Share Posted December 2, 2004 OK I get it. I'm calling that part of the pull the creep. d) Then the trigger bar contacts the connector which starts to push the rear of the trigger bar down. Since the trigger bar is out of the drop safety notch the trigger bar is able to move downward in the deeper part of the trigger housing window. The effort on the connector as well as the final "cocking" effort of the firing pin is what I would call the creep. By getting the trigger bar to release the firing pin sooner you reduce the amount of rearward motion in what I'm calling the creep section and get to the break sooner. You are correct that this work should not affect any of the safeties. I've played with that a little bit too. I consider this more advanced work and don't recommend it to most folks. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diehli Posted December 2, 2004 Share Posted December 2, 2004 Tom, I'm guessing it's the whole "no changing calibers" thing, though I agree that it's not a change in caliber. At a major match methinks you'd be told "welcome to Open." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDean Posted December 2, 2004 Share Posted December 2, 2004 Ya, you're probably right.... and I don't have $100 to lose. So I wouldn't show up at a major, but local matches it sure is easier on the wallet shooting .40sw brass rather than 10mm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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