WST in 9mm

[jayjay1]

Hello all,

could get my hands on WST after searching it for a couple of month...

Now I want to load my 145gr. Lyman cast bullets (LFNBB) with an OAL of 1.120" for my CZ Shadow (dang short chamber).

After reading the whole thread, I would go with 3,4gr. for the starting loads.

Any other experiences with that bullit?

[pcschwenke]

I'm not familiar with that bullet jayjay1 but, it should be safe. My load in a XDM 5.25 is 3.7gr of WST with 147 FP bullet. I have had it charged much higher without issues.

[jayjay1]

All right, sounds good.

There are just no load datas on the road with WST in the 9mm Luger, and QL hasn´t listed WST at all.

Well Mr. Schwenke, thanks for your help and German greetings from the land of your forefathers.

[pcschwenke]

Your Welcome. I didn't realize you were from Germany! Pretty neat how the internet works. I've always wanted to visit Germany someday and check out our family name.

FYI, I love WST powder. I use it in 9mm, 38 super, 38 special, and 45 ACP. Very good powder for pistol.

[RDA]

Your Welcome. I didn't realize you were from Germany! Pretty neat how the internet works.

Or that I know precisely where you live as we spend time every summer in your neck of the woods.

I've always wanted to visit Germany someday and check out our family name.

+1

[jayjay1]

Your Welcome. I didn't realize you were from Germany! Pretty neat how the internet works. I've always wanted to visit Germany someday and check out our family name.

FYI, I love WST powder. I use it in 9mm, 38 super, 38 special, and 45 ACP. Very good powder for pistol.

Well, your name may have several roots, but, it isn´t too common on the other hand.

I googled a little around.

http://nachname.gofeminin.de/w/nachnamen/nachname-schwenke.html

There are only 2.138 persons living in Germany with this surname.

It has rank no. 2354 on the list of the most common family names, which is really not much.

It might be, that your forefathers were from the small town "Schwenke" in Nordrhein-Westfalen.

http://www.orte-in-deutschland.de/116909-gemeinde-schwenke.html

Another source says, that the old-middle-age word for "swan" was pretty the same as your surname.

Maybe your forefathers had one or did raise swans.

The German verb "schwenken" means to swing, swivel or sway something.

On another site I´ve read, that it might be, that the forefather who stands for your name had a "swinging" way of walking.

Maybe, maybe not, that one of this statements hits the point, I don´t know.

BTT:

Thanks for your help with the WST again.

I´ll try it in 9mm and .40 S&W.

[pcschwenke]

Thanks for the back ground information! I'll check into it. The company I work for has been attending a trade show in Germany for a few years now. Maybe soon it will be my turn!

Hopefully finding powder is much easier in Germany than in the US. I've been picking up 1-2 lbs each time I see it but, components are hard to come by. The .22LR has been impossible for anyone to find in our area. It's been over 2 years since I've seen it in the stores....

Let us know how your loads work out.

Paul

[jayjay1]

No big problem here to get powder or .22lr - ammo.

Well, you wouldn´t get every powder, but you always get some which is close to.

If you order early enough, you can get here everything (my dealer always waits until he has his shipping full).

But I´m a countryboy, living nearby the Black Forest (Freiburg).

In bigger stores in the cities, it shouldn´t be a problem to get anything you like.

But to take it out of the land, by plane!?!?!

Just finished work and will do now the first load, then I go to shoot it.

Edited April 4, 2014 by jayjay1

[jayjay1]

Thanks for the back ground information! I'll check into it. The company I work for has been attending a trade show in Germany for a few years now. Maybe soon it will be my turn!

Hopefully finding powder is much easier in Germany than in the US. I've been picking up 1-2 lbs each time I see it but, components are hard to come by. The .22LR has been impossible for anyone to find in our area. It's been over 2 years since I've seen it in the stores....

Let us know how your loads work out.

Paul

Oh, had some 40s to shoot first, will do the 9´s next week.

Tell me, do you know wherefrom in Germany your forefathers came?

Was it the village "Schwenke" in Nordrhein-Westfalen?

[pcschwenke]

jayjay1, not sure where my great grandfather was from. Everyone who knew passed away.... I need to ask my Dad more questions!

What load are you trying with the .40s&w? I'm using 4.8 WST with the 122fp in my 38 super. This is a magical load for it with the AET Schuemann barrel. I took 3 ace with this load a a recent PPC match. I was not happy with my performance, but later found d out my front sight could move up ' down 0.060" whichi equals around 7" for my sight radius and target distance .... My 45 ACP load is 4.3 WST with the 200gr SWC. With the .40, 4.3gr should be safe to start at and work up.

[jayjay1]

Hey Mr. Schwenke,

I´m making Major with 4,4gr. WST and an 175gr. lead bullet out of my TS so far.

I would subscribe, that you should ask your Dad where your roots are.

I´ve searched five generations back, unfortunately no knight or lord in my family so far.

Edited April 6, 2014 by jayjay1

[mgrs]

Update from chrono today:

SNS 147gr TC

1.145 OAL

3.0 WST

Mixed brass

Federal SP

878 AU

20 ES

8SD

129 PF

3.0 seems light, but I confirmed weight with both a calibrated Dillon and lee scale. Glock 34 with KKM barrel.

Soft shooting, I like this powder.

[Akkid17]

Has anyone tried WST for a minor open 9mm load. I tried a mag of it yesterday through my open gun and it seemed alright, definitely not a lot of gas but it fed and cycled it.

135 gr bayou bullet

4.0 gr WST

OAL 1.110"

[Gunfighter01]

I've shot wst through a g34...g17....and a Sig 226 with zero issues. 3.2 an 3.4 is pretty low. I've had good results in all 3 guns with 3.8 and 4.0 using 147gr moly. I upped it up to 4.3 with 125 gr moly bullets to make pf in 4" barrels. The 3.8 and 4.0 were with 147gr moly bullets. If you go below 3.8 you might consider dropping the recoil spring down to 12#. I use a 14# spring above 3.6 with no issues. Also...I've loaded all of those rounds with 1.125 up to 1.160 oal...also...no issues

[AJE]

Shot a bunch over the choronograph yesterday...

Difference between the barrel lengths...

Also tried out the temperature sensitivity...

[truborshooter]

Excellent report...

only one question which Xtreme 147? hard cast lead, plated, heavy plated.....?

[Mat Price]

Anyone have any load data for 135 grain lead or plated rounds with WST?

Yep!

Just chrono'd yesterday.

CZ Sp-01 Shadow

Bayou 135 gn bullet

3.93 gns WST

WSP primer

1.120 oal

Ave 990 fps for 20 shot string

Mixed brass

That's my load with a 135 bayou bullet. I get a very soft 130 pf out of my xd tactical with a storm Lake bbl

[AJE]

Excellent report...

only one question which Xtreme 147? hard cast lead, plated, heavy plated.....?

I'm sorry, I forgot there was more than just what I buy. 147 round nose plated

[theblacknight]

I've shot wst through a g34...g17....and a Sig 226 with zero issues. 3.2 an 3.4 is pretty low. I've had good results in all 3 guns with 3.8 and 4.0 using 147gr moly. I upped it up to 4.3 with 125 gr moly bullets to make pf in 4" barrels. The 3.8 and 4.0 were with 147gr moly bullets. If you go below 3.8 you might consider dropping the recoil spring down to 12#. I use a 14# spring above 3.6 with no issues. Also...I've loaded all of those rounds with 1.125 up to 1.160 oal...also...no issues

I using 3.7 right now in my G17 with 13# recoil spring. I'm trying to get to a chromo to test 3.7,3.9, and 4.1 with 147s coated's.

[rdinga]

Been doing a lot of load development over the past two weeks. My new favorite load for the Glock 17 is 3.6 grains of WST and the 147 Bayou FP. Going to stick with this until I finish the 8 pound keg of WST used for load development.

[AJE]

Been doing a lot of load development over the past two weeks. My new favorite load for the Glock 17 is 3.6 grains of WST and the 147 Bayou FP. Going to stick with this until I finish the 8 pound keg of WST used for load development.

Same load I'm using.... I just need to find another keg of powder.

[locochinoloco]

Hi, this is my first post in the forum. I don't post because I feel like I don't have much to contribute and I am relatively new to firearms and reloading, less than 2 years shooting and less and 1 year reloading. Anyways, I'm in need of some opinions and or advice on what I'm doing wrong.

Attached are some chrono data when it was around 50 degrees. There are other sites are posting folks using as much as 5.4 gr with 115 gr RN, but I'm a but reluctant to increase that high because of warning from others.

So best load I have so far is 4.2 gr at 1.12 OAL with Xtreme 124 gr RN, assuming I'm reading correctly with best values for Average, Extreme Spread and Standard of Deviation.

My PPQ only have a power factor of 120 and the SP-01 is at 123.

Any opinion or suggestions on what I may be doing wrong? Thanks in advance.

Edited May 18, 2014 by locochinoloco

[razorfish]

Hi, this is my first post in the forum. I don't post because I feel like I don't have much to contribute and I am relatively new to firearms and reloading, less than 2 years shooting and less and 1 year reloading. Anyways, I'm in need of some opinions and or advice on what I'm doing wrong.

Attached are some chrono data when it was around 50 degrees. There are other sites are posting folks using as much as 5.4 gr with 115 gr RN, but I'm a but reluctant to increase that high because of warning from others.

So best load I have so far is 4.2 gr at 1.12 OAL with Xtreme 124 gr RN, assuming I'm reading correctly with best values for Average, Extreme Spread and Standard of Deviation.

My PPQ only have a power factor of 120 and the SP-01 is at 123.

Any opinion or suggestions on what I may be doing wrong? Thanks in advance.

Your results look typical of what I've come to expect from WST in 9mm. I'm thinking the high Standard Deviation at 4.4 and 4.6 grains using the CZ is not really there. I would guess if you ran a couple more strings of 4.4/4.6 through the CZ the SD would return to a more "normal" range. An SD of 12 or less with WST is pretty good in my opinion.

Looking at your results, I would bump your load up to 4.4 grains of WST at 1.12 OAL (124 gr RN). This load is just a bit above 120 power factor and is the same amount of WST I run under a 124 grain Bayou Coated Bullet at 1.12 OAL. Also shooting an SP01.

I wouldn't worry too much at 4.4 or 4.5 grains. Remember to check the primer for signs of excessive pressure, but my best guess is you will be just fine.

WST can be a somewhat problematic metering through a Dillon powder measure. The powder is a very fine Ball Powder that meters more like a Flake Powder. Polish up your powder measure and use a consistent, steady stroke on the press for best/repeatable results.

Everything looks great in your data... You're doing just fine.

[locochinoloco]

Thanks for the feedback RazorFish!

I was debating between a Hornady L-N-L vs. Dillion 650 and went with the L-N-L because of the issue you've described with metering.

So to pick at your brain, why not 4.3 gr with 1.10 OAL?

I cross referenced a few factory round and the velocity for 124gr FMJ are about 1150 fps, and my high end are 1074 fps and 1046 fps. Is that a number that I should be striving for?

I've noticed some manufactures ammunition yield better results than others, in terms of "tight group", across many handguns. E.g. Buffalo Bore or some reload company that produce for USPSA/IPDA shooters. Is it safe to assume that is what I'm witnessing? 4.4g with 1.12 OAL may do well with many handguns?

[razorfish]

I was debating between a Hornady L-N-L vs. Dillion 650 and went with the L-N-L because of the issue you've described with metering.

So to pick at your brain, why not 4.3 gr with 1.10 OAL?

I cross referenced a few factory round and the velocity for 124gr FMJ are about 1150 fps, and my high end are 1074 fps and 1046 fps. Is that a number that I should be striving for?

I've noticed some manufactures ammunition yield better results than others, in terms of "tight group", across many handguns. E.g. Buffalo Bore or some reload company that produce for USPSA/IPDA shooters. Is it safe to assume that is what I'm witnessing? 4.4g with 1.12 OAL may do well with many handguns?

I guess my thinking is USPSA/IDPA based. I use WST for practice ammo only. WST is too inverse temperature sensitive for me to use it as match ammo. With that said, you'll load a little more WST in the summer and a little less in the winter. My objective is stay above 125 PF on my practice ammo, but no so much as to waste powder. My match ammo in 9mm uses VV N320 and WST "feels" the same to me and it's generally half the price.

I've notice the CZ's I have love shorter OAL's but I would only drop the OAL if it were to achieve better accuracy. I would NEVER use a reduce OAL to get a few more FPS out of a load... it's just not a safe way develop a load due to the increased pressures involved.

Every gun and every barrel are different. The first step is find a safe load that will yield a suitable power factor. The next step is to find which load among your safe loads is more accurate but still manageable. I say manageable as sometimes the more accurate loads are much higher power factors but the higher power factor often means more muzzle flip and therefore more time between shots.

It used to be fun developing loads, but now it seems too much like work. Enjoy it while you can.