The 180 and Holstered Firearm

[ZackJones]

Short version: Can a holstered firearm break the 180?

Long version:

Take a look at the attached stage diagram. (For some reason the diagram didn't upload). So imagine a stage where you have two barrels one in front of the other separated by 10 feet of distance. Start position is behind barrel A and you have to move a prop from barrel A to barrel B.

We had a stage at our match this month where you had to move an object from barrel A to barrel B. You also had to engage targets. How you got the object from A to B was up to you. Some folks held it and shot targets strong hand only and others would set it down, shoot and move it along until they could put it onto barrel B.

I had considered the following approach but didn't do it. I was wondering if this would have been considered an acceptable method or would it have been considered a 180 violation or violate some other rule that I'm not aware of.

Upon start signal leave firearm holstered. Pick up prop and take it from barrel A to barrel B and drop it off as required. Then, with firearm still holstered, turn around and proceed back to a position where I could safely draw and start engaging targets. I would have turned back around and be facing down range before drawing. I realize I would have given up a good amount of time doing this but I'm shooting a wheel gun so I'm giving up time as it is .

Edited November 12, 2013 by ZackJones

[Sarge]

Holstered guns are considered inert .

Think about your question. If you can't do what you are thinking about how in the world could we do uprange starts?

[Sarge]

8.2.5 A course of fire must never require the competitor to re-holster a hand- gun after the start signal. However, a competitor may re-holster pro- vided this is accomplished safely, and the handgun is either unloaded or in a ready condition stated in Section 8.1.

[ZackJones]

Sarge,

First off from one vet to another - THANK YOU!

Your first statement pretty much sums everything up. A holstered gun is considered inert. In all of the uprange starts I've even done it's always been turn, then draw usually while confined from a shooting box. I wasn't sure if me moving before the draw would have mattered.

I did read the rule book this morning prior to posting but didn't feel that 8.2.5 applied because I was not reholstering the firearm.

I appreciate the clarification you've provided.

[Sarge]

The point behind me posting 825 was to show that it's ok to move about with it holstered. Some new shooters I have helped actually preferred to reholster and move uprange. But like you mention it is generally a time killer. After shooting matches for awhile you will grow accustomed to keeping the gun pointed in a safe direction while moving about in a COF

[Sarge]

Keep asking good questions and you will become a better shooter.

[JAFO]

Since you were considering taking the prop to barrel B first, why not drop the prop at barrel B and then draw and engage targets while retreating back to barrel A? Or was there more to the stage beyond barrel B?

[ZackJones]

Since you were considering taking the prop to barrel B first, why not drop the prop at barrel B and then draw and engage targets while retreating back to barrel A? Or was there more to the stage beyond barrel B?

I had considered that approach as well but wasn't sure how well I would shoot while walking backwards. I haven't practiced that skill and didn't want to try it in a match without first trying it in practice. I figured I would be faster by running to barrel B, dropping off the prop then running back to barrel A and engaging targets. There were additional targets beyond barrel B. You had to open a door to get to them.

[bikerburgess]

with the gamers I shoot with (myself included), unless specifically not allowed in the stage description most would throw the container towards the end location then shoot there way there and pick it up and put it where it goes when they got there.

Mike

[ZackJones]

with the gamers I shoot with (myself included), unless specifically not allowed in the stage description most would throw the container towards the end location then shoot there way there and pick it up and put it where it goes when they got there.

That would have been a creative way to solve the problem now wouldn't. I need to think of ideas like that!

[StraightUp_OG]

with the gamers I shoot with (myself included), unless specifically not allowed in the stage description most would throw the container towards the end location then shoot there way there and pick it up and put it where it goes when they got there.

That would have been a creative way to solve the problem now wouldn't. I need to think of ideas like that!

And a Gamer is born!

[bikerburgess]

That is one of the things I love about this sport. You get to solve the problem however you want

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[uod]

ZackJones, on 12 Nov 2013 - 08:42 AM, said:

I realize I would have given up a good amount of time doing this but I'm shooting a wheel gun so I'm giving up time as it is .

The entire time I was thinking, "why in the heck would you run that prop all the way up and then come back" ---- and then I realized you were shooting a wheel gun.

BTW : I shot the stage you are talking about. The person sitting in the cube next to me is actually the one who designed it.

Edited November 13, 2013 by uod

[ZackJones]

ZackJones, on 12 Nov 2013 - 08:42 AM, said:

I realize I would have given up a good amount of time doing this but I'm shooting a wheel gun so I'm giving up time as it is .

The entire time I was thinking, "why in the heck would you run that prop all the way up and then come back" ---- and then I realized you were shooting a wheel gun.

BTW : I shot the stage you are talking about. The person sitting in the cube next to me is actually the one who designed it.

Yup I was the one and only wheel gunner out there but that's okay. I had a great time and the guys on my squad didn't give me too much grief about how many times I had to reload. It was a fun stage. I shot it clean so I'm happy with that!

[uod]

with the gamers I shoot with (myself included), unless specifically not allowed in the stage description most would throw the container towards the end location then shoot there way there and pick it up and put it where it goes when they got there.

That would have been a creative way to solve the problem now wouldn't. I need to think of ideas like that!

That was actually disallowed in the WSB. The prop had to be carried, not thrown.

[Sarge]

with the gamers I shoot with (myself included), unless specifically not allowed in the stage description most would throw the container towards the end location then shoot there way there and pick it up and put it where it goes when they got there.

That would have been a creative way to solve the problem now wouldn't. I need to think of ideas like that!

That was actually disallowed in the WSB. The prop had to be carried, not thrown.

BOOOOO!!!!!

[bikerburgess]

with the gamers I shoot with (myself included), unless specifically not allowed in the stage description most would throw the container towards the end location then shoot there way there and pick it up and put it where it goes when they got there.

That would have been a creative way to solve the problem now wouldn't. I need to think of ideas like that!

That was actually disallowed in the WSB. The prop had to be carried, not thrown.

Sounds like a win for the stage designer in the ongoing battle against the gamers.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

[EEH]

I shot that same stage and it was a pet carrier very light,the targets you had to engage we're very close,so I shot them strong hand..I did see a couple guys set the basket down shoot then move to the next shooting spot..after you dropped off the pet carrier there were a couple more targets to engage then go thru a door..For the remaining targets...I liked the stage..

[EkuJustice]

Was there a strap on it. If so clip it on something and go. I have hung one off a mag before. Was it one procedural total or one per shot. In Ohio a couple years ago they had cuffs that had to be dropped off at the end. One total. The vast majority left them

Edited November 16, 2013 by EkuJustice

[ZackJones]

Was there a strap on it. If so clip it on something and go. I have hung one off a mag before. Was it one procedural total or one per shot. In Ohio a couple years ago they had cuffs that had to be dropped off at the end. One total. The vast majority left them

It was a cat carrier minus the cat . I believe it was one procedural per shot but I'm not 100% sure about that.

[Nimitz]

unless it was a carrier for a hamster there is no way you're strapping a cat carrier to you and running anywhere ...

[sperman]

I've hooked a 5 gallon bucket on my mags and shot a stage before. As long as the handle was big enough, I don't know why a cat carrier would be any different.

[ZackJones]

I wish I had a copy of the stage description. I would like to know if it specified if the carrier had to be carried from barrel A to barrel B. Hooking it on a mag/speed loader holder would have worked as well. Lots of great ideas for how to handle props in the future. Thanks for all of the comments.

[atbarr]

In Ohio a couple years ago they had cuffs that had to be dropped off at the end. One total. The vast majority left them

Our you could hook the cuffs on your suspenders.

[lef-t]

with the gamers I shoot with (myself included), unless specifically not allowed in the stage description most would throw the container towards the end location then shoot there way there and pick it up and put it where it goes when they got there.

That would have been a creative way to solve the problem now wouldn't. I need to think of ideas like that!

That was actually disallowed in the WSB. The prop had to be carried, not thrown.

This actually reminded me of a question I had. Can you specify in a WSB that a prop must be retained while engaging a set of targets? In the stage attached, the WSB said you had to be retaining the parcel while engaging T1-T5 then drop it in a bucket to activate the swinger on the other side of the door. Granted, it didn't say how you had to retain it, so you could put it under your arm, between your legs, or balance it on your head if you chose. There was no handle, it was just a cardboard box wrapped in duct tape.

I can't see why not, but some shooters thought that by specifying what arrays you had to shoot while retaining the box it wasn't "freestyle." It didn't say any order you had to shoot them, just T1-T5 had to be shot with the box on you. Thoughts?