The 180 and Holstered Firearm

[Nik Habicht]

I wouldn't approve that as a WSB if I was the RM. Either design the stage in such a way that carrying the thing makes sense, and that there's a required purpose at the end -- such as using the prop to activate something -- or just lose that component.......

We once had a stage at a Sectional match where the competitor started at a simulated reloading press. Start position was strong hand on press handle, weak hand holding a case over a receptacle. Stage procedure included the wording: Upon start signal, drop the case in the receptacle, and engage targets.

A RMI who was going to RM the match for the final two days (I RM'd it on staff day) asked me how penalties would be assessed if the case landed outside the receptacle, or bounced out. I told him that we wrote the procedure to keep the staff from having to pick up the case for every competitor, and that I wasn't planning on assessing penalties for a violation, unless someone chose to wind-up and throw the case away....

Everyone made a good faith effort to get the case in the receptacle, which was located directly below the hand, and large enough -- that it simply wasn't an issue....

The RMI commented that I'd passed a stage design test -- that procedures should have a purpose, and a penalty that made sense.....

[sperman]

I think you can specify what the competitor does with the prop, but not what targets are engaged. I'm a little fuzzy in this area, but in this thread Troy explains it a bit.

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=129124&p=1455917

I think it is legal to say the shooter must retain the prop until it is placed in the barrel, but I don't think you can tell the shooter what targets he must engage. The stage design can pretty much force that to happen, but if the shooter wants to run downrange, drop the prop in the bucket, then run back uprange and shoot, I don't think you can stop him.

You also need to be careful how the penalties are assessed. If it is just one penalty for failure to follow the WSB, it is frequently better to eat the penalty and not mess with the prop. Of course, if the only way to activate the swinger is by using the prop, then you have eliminated that problem.

[Sarge]

with the gamers I shoot with (myself included), unless specifically not allowed in the stage description most would throw the container towards the end location then shoot there way there and pick it up and put it where it goes when they got there.

That would have been a creative way to solve the problem now wouldn't. I need to think of ideas like that!

That was actually disallowed in the WSB. The prop had to be carried, not thrown.

This actually reminded me of a question I had. Can you specify in a WSB that a prop must be retained while engaging a set of targets? In the stage attached, the WSB said you had to be retaining the parcel while engaging T1-T5 then drop it in a bucket to activate the swinger on the other side of the door. Granted, it didn't say how you had to retain it, so you could put it under your arm, between your legs, or balance it on your head if you chose. There was no handle, it was just a cardboard box wrapped in duct tape.

I can't see why not, but some shooters thought that by specifying what arrays you had to shoot while retaining the box it wasn't "freestyle." It didn't say any order you had to shoot them, just T1-T5 had to be shot with the box on you. Thoughts?

Perfectly legal. However, if it is only one procedural and it's a PITA to carry it most better shooters will just ignore it, shoot the stage better and faster and take the procedural.

[lef-t]

Perfectly legal. However, if it is only one procedural and it's a PITA to carry it most better shooters will just ignore it, shoot the stage better and faster and take the procedural.

So pretty much if you really want them to carry the box, specify in the WSB it's one procedural per shot without the box?

[Nik Habicht]

Perfectly legal. However, if it is only one procedural and it's a PITA to carry it most better shooters will just ignore it, shoot the stage better and faster and take the procedural.

So pretty much if you really want them to carry the box, specify in the WSB it's one procedural per shot without the box?

That would give shooters a pretty good opportunity to arbitrate the legality of the stage for violating freestyle......

You might lose the stage.....

Better to design it correctly in the first place....