bikerburgess Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 Does anybody have any good data on how much faster an auto is than a pump on the types of shooting that we do in multigun? I have been running a 590 for the last couple of years because it was what I could afford when I first started multigun competitions, now I want to upgrade to a auto but before I spend the money I want to know what I can expect to get for it in the way of increased performance. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
co-exprs Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 (edited) I was running some load 12 drills yesterday. I was consistently pulling down 10 to 10.5 seconds with my Versamax vs a consistent 10.5 to 11 seconds with my SuperNova. It really depends upon the courses of fire and your skills. When shooting lots of close targets, close together, autos will always be faster. When courses are more field course style, with targets spaced further apart, more movement, more thrown birds and such, then they are about equal. Also, I've tried running them back to back on a 3 popper/3 flipper array. I can usually hit all three steel and all three birds with my auto. Same array I can never get that third flipper with my pump. So my real answer to the question is... when I go to shoot tactical divisions, I often consider taking the pump, but always take the auto. If you were asking about one versatile shotgun to serve as hunting, home defense and competition in multiple divisions, I would suggest a Nova pump, but if it is going to be a shotgun dedicated to running in Tac Optics or Limited divisions, then go autoloader for the win. On the up side, there are more, excellent options available now than when I started and you have the pump you've been running. You can save up and purchase exactly what you want. Take some time to look over and handle all of the players. Versamax, M2 and SLP are all great shotguns. The new Beretta 1301 looks pretty sweet too (and deserves a look). Edited October 28, 2013 by co-exprs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikerburgess Posted October 28, 2013 Author Share Posted October 28, 2013 thanks co-expers that is exactly the type of data I am looking for. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
35WLN Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 Mike, One area that I think the auto is better is slugs when you are resting on a prop. If you bug Craig, he should be finishing up on my backup M1. You can run it for a couple of matches and see if you really want to change. Adam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 Mike, One area that I think the auto is better is slugs when you are resting on a prop. If you bug Craig, he should be finishing up on my backup M1. You can run it for a couple of matches and see if you really want to change. Adam Actually, NOT resting on a prop for slugs is usually better for accuracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PacMan Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 (edited) Auto comes in handy if you have to shoot prone. Otherwise a properly reworked Nova is extremely quick, just ask the guys who are running RNT's Novas Edited October 28, 2013 by PacMan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikerburgess Posted October 28, 2013 Author Share Posted October 28, 2013 Thanks Adam, I may take you up on that. I haven't had to shoot slugs rested yet, the 50yd plate rack last match was about the hardest slug shot Ive had so far and that was not bad at all. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HRider Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 To echo what Co-exprs said, for all around use, the Benelli Nova/Super Novas are tough to beat, but for a tac-optics 3 gun shotgun, I would choose an automatic. At the 2011 Rockcastle ProAm, Benelli had a side match set up where they were letting everyone shoot the then new Benelli 3gun M2. They had 5 steel, close together and 3 flippers throwing clays. I talked them into letting me run it for fun with my Benelli Nova, As I recall, I was a little over one second slower with the pump. I set up a shotgun side match after one of my clubs USPSA matches a when my Nova was new. We had shot the classifier that has six poppers, three large and three small, alternating. I shot my M1 and then shot my Nova. I shot the auto in 2.0 something and the Nova in 3.5, if I remember correctly. The challenge to shooting the pump fast (for me) is pulling it off target as I work the action. I stand in the bedroom and dryfire over and over working on keeping the gun straight as I cycle the action. Like was said earlier, on longer field courses, the pump doesn't give up much to an auto. Hurley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbrowndog Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 An auto works when you pull the trigger, a pump requires you to work it. I have short stroked a pump many many times, I have never had a good quality auto fail to work when I pulled the trigger. both still require you to maintain them, when we teach shotgun classes, the pump users always require more attention. simply because the user is the operating system, not because the gun is bad. Yes a good pump shooter can give an average- above average auto shooter a run for thier money, I have beaten auto shooters many times running my pump, but I can still run an auto faster. The operating system is just slower on the pump, and the advantage of being able to just pull the trigger again when you miss is tremendous when compared to having top work the gun and then pull the trigger again. Trapr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
35WLN Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 Mark, I would agree most of the time but I have been on long field courses where my breathing was less than optimal and a braced position was best. Ironman was one of those matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikerburgess Posted October 29, 2013 Author Share Posted October 29, 2013 I have no doubt that a auto is faster than a pump. What I am trying to quantify is what that performance improvement actually is. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.E. Kelley Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 You have some really good answers here. Trapr IS a pumpgunner of note. And I know that HR and Co can run the hell out them as well. What you are asking for is like asking what is the quantifiable difference between OPEN and LIMITED guns. I don't have the scores in front of me but if you hit the net and look up the results from the Benelli match at Rockcastle and both the Nordic Components shotgun matches (Sparta IL and St Cloud MN) you should be able to get an idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbrowndog Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 (edited) Good analogy Pat. Mike there is NO single, black and white answer. If you want, go measure the difference between shot to shot on an auto and a pump with you pulling the trigger,.... thats the difference,............................for you!!! Performance improvement is an esoteric value, I cannot put it into a quantifiable value for you, only you can, and that changes depending on which gun fits you better, which gun you have more experience with, which gun you shoot more, even which gun you like better. Trapr Edited October 29, 2013 by bigbrowndog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Anderson Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 The auto will be, on average, 11.353% faster than the pump gun. There, you have an answer, now go buy an auto. Admittedly I completely pulled a series of random digits together to make that number. But I'm talking to a guy running a Glock .357 Sig Open gun. How competetive do you really want to be. I spend a bit of time running a pump and I'm reasonably quick with mine. Engaging different targets for the most part eliminates the time needed to cycle the action. But there are lots of positions, kneeling and prone, that take a lot more time to run the pump. It's just one more thing to think about on the clock. I'd rather focus on pointing and pulling rather than running the action on the gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikerburgess Posted October 29, 2013 Author Share Posted October 29, 2013 Pat thanks for the shotgun only match link I had not thought of them, I will look them up. I think Chuck hit the nail on the head how competitive do I want to be is really the question I was trying to answer. I do shoot a 357sig Glock in open part because its cheap and part because I like being "that guy" (and everyone gives my brass back) I kind of do the same with the pump in Limited and Tactical its cheap and works, but if going auto will make a significant improvement then it is easier to justify the expense of a new gun. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinistralRifleman Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 (edited) For me I've seen the biggest difference is on tightly packed target clusters and awkward positions. The less distance to swing between targets and pump on the way, the slower the pump will be. Then of course on longer courses of fire, fatigue can be an issue as well. Watch some people shooting pumps at Ironman and you'll notice by the end many of them are slowing down. You have to work harder to accomplish the same result. Edited October 29, 2013 by SinistralRifleman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now