midvalleyshooter Posted November 20, 2004 Share Posted November 20, 2004 Ok, help me out here. I read on another post that IDPA has outlawed airgunning. Please define air gunning for me. Thanks, Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted November 20, 2004 Share Posted November 20, 2004 It is anything the MD or the CRO doesn't like Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhgtyre Posted November 20, 2004 Share Posted November 20, 2004 It is IDPA's way of defining when practice must stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sac Law Man Posted November 20, 2004 Share Posted November 20, 2004 Its taking a shooting stance, posture, etc..and pretending to be shooting or taking a sight picture without a gun in your hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDave Posted November 20, 2004 Share Posted November 20, 2004 It is anything the MD or the CRO doesn't like As funny as that might sound, I think that is accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banjobart Posted November 20, 2004 Share Posted November 20, 2004 There is not a definition or mention of airgunning in the IDPA rule book. However, there is a very clear and concise definition of "sight picture", of which airgunning is not. I have been yelled at for pointing my finger at a target during pasting to answer another shooter's question because he missed the walk-through. The SO chastised me for "airgunning". I was suprised that he thought he could read my mind. At that moment my finger was an imaginary laser pointer, not a gun. If a shooter is walking around the course of fire during pasting and pointing his finger at each target while whispering bang, bang, bang they will get a procedural penalty for performing an "individual walk-thourgh". The fact that the shooter was airgunning is incidental to the violation. Of interest to all is that a phone call to IDPA HQ will tell you that airguinning is not allowed in IDPA. So we have imaginary rules to disallow imaginary guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted November 20, 2004 Share Posted November 20, 2004 ROTFLMAO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted November 20, 2004 Share Posted November 20, 2004 So we have imaginary rules to disallow imaginary guns. And that my friend is why I don't shoot much IDPA anymore. Once the sport matures, I'll be back....until then I'll shoot the MI State match and nothing else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted November 20, 2004 Share Posted November 20, 2004 You tell 'em Jake,... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midvalleyshooter Posted November 20, 2004 Author Share Posted November 20, 2004 Thanks for the info. Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Practical Use Posted November 20, 2004 Share Posted November 20, 2004 Jake - How can the sport mature if people like you don't shoot, and don't help the sport to mature. Why shoot at all? Not intended to be a flame - I really get concerned. Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted November 20, 2004 Share Posted November 20, 2004 Practical Use, I wonder how receptive the home office is to "help"? If I understand correctly, there were offers and suggestions submitted by some experienced members? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Practical Use Posted November 21, 2004 Share Posted November 21, 2004 They never answered any of my letters, but I am not bailing on the sport. Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Perez Posted November 21, 2004 Share Posted November 21, 2004 Ok, help me out here. I read on another post that IDPA has outlawed airgunning. Please define air gunning for me.Thanks, Keith It's kind of like playing "Air guitar" , without the music . Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Moneypenny Posted November 21, 2004 Share Posted November 21, 2004 It is a response the RO uses when he thinks your pretending to shoot a stage. It is also things other shooters yell at you for any time a lesser classified shooter asks you a question. Being a descently talented shooter i have questions asked and while talking with my hands facing AWAY from the targets have had other shooters complain about my air gunning. they ask a question about grip or reloading technique and you show them the motion and. waaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhh. he's airgunning. pointing a finger is not airgunning in my opinion. but then again we have different opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted November 21, 2004 Share Posted November 21, 2004 Jake - How can the sport mature if people like you don't shoot, and don't help the sport to mature. Why shoot at all?Not intended to be a flame - I really get concerned. Ed Here is my thinking on it. This may get a little harsh so no hard feelings if a moderator wants to edit it. I'll try and keep it toned down though. Until the IDPA BOD gets their heads out of their keesters and realizes that they need to accept input by their members, the sport will NEVER mature no matter who is shooting it. I'm sorry, but I will not be a part of any group of people that is not willing to adapt and perhaps eat some of their own words and actions to better the shooting sports. That probably sounds worse than I wanted it to and I don't mean any disrespect towards IDPA shooters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted November 21, 2004 Share Posted November 21, 2004 My feelings too Jake...well put.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Boudrie Posted November 21, 2004 Share Posted November 21, 2004 Until the IDPA BOD gets their heads out of their keesters and realizes that they need to accept input by their members, the sport will NEVER mature no matter who is shooting it. "Customers" might be a better word than "member", since these "members" are not permitted to vote on who will run the organization. But then, hotels charge you and still use the term "guest", not to mention country clubs calling their customers "members", so the use of the term "member" may not be too much of a streatch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmills Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 Until the IDPA BOD gets their heads out of their keesters and realizes that they need to accept input by their members, the sport will NEVER mature no matter who is shooting it. "Customers" might be a better word than "member", since these "members" are not permitted to vote on who will run the organization. But then, hotels charge you and still use the term "guest", not to mention country clubs calling their customers "members", so the use of the term "member" may not be too much of a streatch. Again, someone tries to compare IDPA to USPSA. IDPA HQ, just like SASS, Bianchi Cup, Steel Challenge, and GSSF, sets it's own rules, period. People who join any of these organizations or compete at their matches, know going in that the rules are determined and set by the owners or directors of those organizations. If one looks at the number of members who vote in the USPSA elections, it's a very small percentage. And when those members ask questions of the BOD such as how much money was lost on the land deal and how much money was spent on so called publicity, no answers are given. So much for being responsive to the membership. Rob, Kyle, have either of you ever shot an IDPA match? If so great. If not, how can you even comment on the issues or the structure of the organization? It's time to stop the IDPA bashing. If you don't like IDPA for whatever reason, please don't put yourselves out by participating in it. Rather than spend time in this forum looking for problems that don't exist, use that energy to improve the USPSA organization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokshwn Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 rmills, No one is looking for problems that don't exist, problems do exist and that is the heart of the issue. There are numerous boards with identical threads. Not every participant is an anti IDPA pro USPSA foil hatted lunatic. Many like me have great home clubs and love the sport, but we have legitimate gripes about the organization. If IDPA HQ does not want to look at the problems fine, if IDPA is a dictatorship so be it. But if the emperor would simply step to the plate and address the issues that continually rear their head the sport would be better for it. Simply taking the attitude that "If you don't like it go away" is detrimental to the sport and divisive to shooters in general. It sounds as though you look at admitting IDPA has real problems to solve, somehow admits wrongdoing and jeopardizes its credibility. My arguement would be that by being honest and solving it's problems, the organization increases its credibility and would thereby support more shooters. Take care, Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 Roy, Rob and I aren't the problem. I can only assume you single us out because he is an USPSA Area Director and I am a Section Coordinator. You don't like USPSA. We get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precision40 Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 Now Flex, you should know better than to encourage a pissing contests on here, shame shame shame This thread really got off topic Big-Time. So back to the original topic of this thread which is to define "Air gunning" I'll offer my opinion. From how I understand IDPA's opinion of it is that in a "real" shootout, you don't have time to practice what you will do, you should be able to perform "on-demand" without any practice. Practice is practice. "Air-gunning" is practice and IDPA is about application, not practice. That's how I see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midvalleyshooter Posted November 22, 2004 Author Share Posted November 22, 2004 I asked the question about airgunning because I have been out of IDPA a couple of years and just wanted a clarification. I shot SASS during this time and I shot USPSA/IPSC in the past. All the action shooting games are pretty much the same for me. You choose your gear and play by the rules, but mostly you find the target, put the sights on the A zone or center of target and press the trigger. I like them all and have enjoyed them all. Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 Precision 40 You just stepped in it with that statement, but I will let it go in an effort not to rag on IDPA.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted Murphy Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 .Once the sport matures, I'll be back.... matures? or changes more to your liking? IDPA's rules need some clarification that is true, but many of the things that people think is lack of maturity (like the subjective rulebook) is an overt decision on the part of the BOD and will not likely change anytime soon if at all. That may well not be to your liking but make no mistake about why it is that way. FWIW, not to bash USPSA but I really cannot see an advantage to USPSA's entrenched bureacracy over IDPA's dictatorship. I get responses on rules questions from both orgainzations at about the same speed and ambiguity and and I've gotten the same resonse from Amidon and my AD to rules suggestions that I've gotten from IDPA's BOD. Lastly, as stated above that land deal reeks and never was fully explained to the membership as there always seemed to be more to it. Both sports have nits you can pick if you are so inclined. Ted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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