Nimitz Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 Pretty sure I have an accuracy issue with my current load and was looking for possible causes. Took a class from Ben Stoeger this weekend and the first thing we did was a no time limit 6 shot group. Mine were all over the place so Ben took my gun and fired 6 rds. His group was considerably better but much worse than he's capable of and it even included a C/D hit. At this point he takes 5 of his rds and loads them in my mag, shoots them , producing a normal group size for him. At this point he turns to me and says: dude, your ammo is @&$?$! ..... So, Where should I be looking to find the culprit? I'll post some pics of a typical one of my rds when I get home .... I'm currently shooting a Xtreme 124 plated bullet under 4.4g of WST with mixed HS brass out of a G34 with a drop in KKM barrel .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougCarden Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 Plated bullets produce iffy groups in Glock barrels particularly, and usually not much better in conventional barrels, coupled with a fast powder that is not recommended for that caliber at all, coupled with most likely too much crimp will give you horrible accuracy.... Yes, I know....the xtremes are some of the best plated out there. I would say your biggest problem is the powder. You load that bullet under some W231, Titegroup, or Solo 1000 and your group will be circular instead of a shotgun pattern. Crimp no more than .376 and you will be ok loading the plated bullets.... Hope that helps. DougC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoshidaex Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 It's the bullets.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Hunter Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 Try some real jacketed bullets. Plated in many guns is a fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhyrlik Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 I've been able to get 1" 10-shot groups at 15 yards from my Glock using Xtreme 125gr FP .357" revolver bullets and mixed brass and reclaimed primers! 125gr Xtreme FP .357" 3.7grs Bullseye 1.050" OAL I'm usually anal and sort brass by head stamp. But this time I needed to use up all my left over mixed brass and pulled primers for a desert blasting session where noise was more important than accuracy. I bought a box of these thinking I could use them in my revolvers too. So I quickly worked up a load just to cycle the Glock. It turned out to be a pretty decent load. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdinga Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 (edited) Plated bullets are finicky at best. OAL seems to be far more critical in finding a good load. I bet if you change only the bullet the same load will produce better groups. If you want to stick with this bullet then start playing with the OAL. WST has produced some excellent accuracy in my Glocks using 124 and 147 bullets from Precision Delta and Zero. Edited October 8, 2013 by rdinga Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noylj Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 In terms of accuracy effects, 1) shooter 2) barrel 3) bullet 4) powder 5) COL For 9x19 bullets, I prefer: 1) 0.357" bullets (lead or jacketed) 2) 0.356" bullets (lead--if the groove diameter is 0.355" or less--or jacketed) 3) JHP 4) L-SWC 5) FMJ-FN 6) FMJ-RN Never had good results with plated, but many do. I would buy a case of Montana Gold 357SIG 125gn JHP or 9mm 124gn CMJ (if you are concerned about JHPs feeding reliably). These are GREAT bullets and just at or under $0.10/bullet. I know it is slower than many action pistol shooters prefer, but AA5 has been very good for me in 9x19. About the best fast powders have been Solo 1000 and AA2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted October 9, 2013 Author Share Posted October 9, 2013 Thx all. I prefer to Stay with the Xtremes unless provided compelling evidence that they won't work. MG is way too expensive since I need 25,000/yr. i'm at 5.5 cents/ ea for Xtremes. I also like WST a lot but could be talked into switching powders with convincing evidence. Sounds like I need to focus on OAL and need to recheck my crimp ... Also, Ben Stoeger shot some more of my ammo out of his gun yesterday during a practice session and had no problem making tight group ... So it appears my Glock doesn't like my current load, not that my load is particularly bad ... Of course this only a temporary problem as my new SP01 arrives in Nov and I'll need to create a new load for it anyway, I'll just be paying attention to the accuracy at lot more and not just PF Anyone know what the relative speed of W231 or Solo 1000 is compared to WST? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Also, Ben Stoeger shot some more of my ammo out of his gun yesterday during a practice session and had no problem making tight group ... So it appears my Glock doesn't like my current load, not that my load is particularly bad ... His ammo worked in both his gun and your gun. Your ammo did not work in your gun. KKM barrels, with conventional rifling, tend to shoot decent. Your aren't emotionally attached to your ammo, right? So...examine your ammo making process. Plated bullets tend to lose their integrity (cut deform the plating) during seating and/or crimping. Sounds like I need to focus on OAL and need to recheck my crimp .. Yep. Be sure to pull the bullets on a few loaded rounds and examine them. I'll just be paying attention to the accuracy at lot more and not just PF Good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastarget Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 DougC, and Flex got you covered, powders are important, 310 in 9mm was shotgun pattern, TG, WST, 231, bullseye one holers. However, I will add that xtreme 124 FP out of my wife's glock, and my Kart and infinity barrels made excellent groups, while their 147 round nose was a disaster. Some barrels like different bullets and different loads. A pro friend of mine said this about "match ammo", what is it worth to use a bullet that can get you an inch closer to the A zone ? practice ammo is a different story. just as a reference, get a handful of zero or MG from someone and load them with the same powder charge etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted October 9, 2013 Author Share Posted October 9, 2013 At the beginning of the year I actually was loading "match ammo", N320 and MG 124 jHPs and then Xtreme 124 w/WST for practice but wanted to simplify my life and come up with just a single load. U fortunately I didn't do any kind of comparison in accuracy, I just assumed the MG/N320 was more accurate ... In general are shorter or longer OAL rds more accurate or is it dependent on the bullet and you just have to experiment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yagi Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 In general are shorter or longer OAL rds more accurate or is it dependent on the bullet and you just have to experiment? You have to find what's the best set up for your gun/barrel/grip/bullet weight/powder... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastarget Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 you are like many of us. We load two types of bullets and even different powders to be cost effective or just due to supply. That said the a good round like the MG makes me confident the bullet will hit what I aim for in a match, so I load good quality for our match ammo. We sight the guns with them and learn their timing. Practice ammo is close but not as precise. In a perfect world and unlimited finances yes I would use the best for every round. But it has been impractical in the last few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 In general are shorter or longer OAL rds more accurate or is it dependent on the bullet and you just have to experiment? Theory is, that for accuracy, a shorter jump to the rifling is better. One member (cautery) here did a study of such. Years ago now, but it was a 40 cal Glock with KKM barrel. He tested for accuracy with a ransom rest. And, he had a KKM barrel made with the chamber cut custom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted October 10, 2013 Author Share Posted October 10, 2013 So since my rds are already loaded as long as possible, 1.15, and still chamber,it sounds like my crimp may be the culprit ... I'll pul a couple of light strike rds tonight and look at them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Accuracy quest page/test: http://montac.net/glock/index.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted October 10, 2013 Author Share Posted October 10, 2013 Interesting read, thx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocice Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 I'm curious to know how you came up with 4.4gr of WST. I load the 124gr X-Treme bullet with 4.5gr WSF . Could be your loads are a little warm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob DuBois Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Tried both Frontier and Berry plated bullets in my Trojan and OAL is a big deal the longer I load them the better the accuracy in my 9mm 1911. I shoot the Glock 34 less but it seems to happy loading long also. I try for .378 crimp. loaded to 1.150 and use a Lee first stage sizing die in my 650. Used 231, Titegroup, N320 and Solo 1000 using heavier bullets, 147-160gn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted October 11, 2013 Author Share Posted October 11, 2013 Yeah, 1.15 was as long as would work. I had heard that longer is better for feed reliability so that's why I did that. Didn't know anything about length vs accuracy. Since I'm loading long with a KKM barrel it would seem that my crimp may be the culprit. I'm swamped currently dealing with my community's 'once a year' garage sale so I can't really focus on this until Sun. That's when I'll get some good measurements and pull some bullets to see where I am ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted October 11, 2013 Author Share Posted October 11, 2013 I really would like to stay with WST as it meters like water since its a ball powder and I love the felt recoil impulse. It's very volumnous so a double charge is impossible. I've heard folks say they've had issues with Solo 1000 being inconsistent lot to lot and I didn't like the impulse of Titegroup ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted October 14, 2013 Author Share Posted October 14, 2013 Ok, here's some pics of 5 rds where I pulled the bullet. The case measurements at the crimp are as follows: .356, .350, .358, .356, .354 So what does everyone think? Over crimped? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougCarden Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 (edited) That would mean the bullets are not the same size since there would not be that much of variance with case wall thickness affecting the bullet...and yes too much crimp. ..376 outer diameter is all you need. DougC Edited October 14, 2013 by DougCarden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted October 14, 2013 Author Share Posted October 14, 2013 thx, I'll check the size of some bullets out of the box to see the variance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted October 14, 2013 Author Share Posted October 14, 2013 my numbers looked odd after seeing your post so I rechecked everything and here's what they really are: loaded ammo at the case mouth: .374, .374, .374, .372, .373, .374 unloaded new bullets: .353, .352, . 354, .354, .355 pulled bullets: .351, .350, . 352, .352 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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