9mm Minor, Dillon 550B, Squibs and Jesus

[Quag]

I recently told a eastern European Jewish shooting friend I was going to home and "have a come to Jesus moment on a reloading forum", after a incident with a squib that was identified after the fact that scared the hell out of me. He wondered what the WTF I was talking about until I told him my story and he said you may not get Jesus to help you with that but you should get to the bottom of it before you hurt yourself. So here it goes.

Incident

I was shooting my G17 with my 147 gr reloads with a Storm Lake after market barrel doing some IDPA drills. During a bill drill the slide jammed half way back and it was stuck on the barrel with no squib. It could not be dislodged on the scene and I took it to an armorer. He dislodged it and he looked at the barrel and he said send it back to SL, the tolerances on the barrel block are too tight for the slide. So I sent it to SL and after talking with the nice fellow in SL tech support. SL indicated that tolerances between the machining in Glock slides and SL barrels sometimes do not match up (very rare) and he offered to machine down the barrel block to my G17 gen 2 slide. I sent both to SL and they found to my surprise (what I and the armorer did not notice) that the SL barrel had a bulge in it about half way down and would not easily fit through the barrel hole in slide muzzle, SL indicated this is what caused the barrel to jamb on the slide. He asked if I had a squib during the drill and I indicated I had not and I had shot with the SL barrel before (not a lot) and had no problems. Upon closer examination he found what appeared to be a copper ring fragment at the bulge and was able to knock it out. It was his opinion (he is a pro shooter) that I had a squib and I did not notice it and shot a second bullet into the squib that dislodged both. He indicated I was very lucky and advised me to carefully review how I was reloading.

Reloading from the basement cave

I am a relatively new reloader I only reload 9mm. There are not a lot of reloaders in the area so a lot of advice has been from forums and parenthetical advice at matches. I have been doing it since Jan 2013 and I have logged about 3900 rounds. When I first started I had the typical beginners problems had squibs and I number of measures to rectify the problems and the worked. But I still have an occasional squib or light load. Here's how I reload now

Reloader: Dillon 550B

Loads: 147 and 124 gr, minor power factor

Powders: various due supply I typically use Hodgden U, Win 231; I typically load abt 3.6 for the 147 gr, and 4 gr for the 124 . I chrono my loads and I am happy with the results and repeatability.

Bullets: Berry and MG

cartridges: various from the range, weed out military and steel

target OAL: 1.10

crimp: .378 to .377

Before reloading I calibrate the scale and run about 5 to 10 test drops until I am happy with the target powder drop. I have mounted a flash light so I can see the powder in the cartridge. after running about 10 rounds I check with a caliper to make sure things are set, they always are. I only had to tighten up the seating station once to make sure I was getting the right OAL. I do not like wasting rounds or primers so if a primer does not feed right away I will sometimes give it a second attempt to seat it after that I throw it away. I have had some problems with variable powder feeds. I have had to adjust the powder drop to just the right angle and tighten up on the screw at the end of the riser bar (what I call it). It seems to be running smoother now. But I still get some jamming of powder dispenser and that little white plastic nut that runs against the powder slide jumps off. I check every round with case gauge. It has been suggested that my crimp is too tight.

Do any of you have suggestions as to how I can weed out this squib problem. I would estimate I get one every 200 to 300 rounds. I do not know what the problem is but I'm losing confidence. One thought is to get and get an experienced reloader to observe my reloading first hand, only so much I can get from forums.

thanks

[CZinSC]

1 out of every 200-300?

You need to figure this problem out quickly. No offense, but you are a dangerous accident waiting to happen.

It looks like you're doing the right things on the press. But my question is what is going on around you. It sounds like you may be getting distracted.

Do you have a TV on in the room? If so, turn it off right now.

Do you have a radio on in the room? Are you singing along or is it just background noise? I have the radio on, but it's there for white noise only. I couldn't tell you what songs have been playing during a reloading session because i'm not listening to the music, it's just on in the background. If you're listening to the music, it's as bad as having a TV on. Turn it off.

Do you have wife/kids/girlfriend/boyfriend interrupting you? If so, you need to find some pictures on the internet of guns that have blown up due to overcharges and show them that this is what happens when you distract a reloader. Maybe then they will leave you alone.

Do you stop frequently to check to see if a case looks right or a primer is seated correctly? If so, minimize that. If you do need to stop, when you go to restart, make sure you look in all four stations and ensure that they are in the right spot. Don't assume.

Find an experienced reloader in your area to come watch you. 1 out of 2-300 is WAY too many for any one person.

Good luck.

[rdinga]

first off I would add a light kit that allowed me to view the dropped powder in every case.

http://inlinefabrication.com/collections/dillon/products/skylighttm-led-lighting-kit-for-the-dillon-550

On the 550 if you get out of sequence due to bad piece of brass, primer that failed to feed properly, baby crying, wife calling, etc..just to be safe always, always start over. If you did not visually verify powder dropping into the case, you are taking a risk. Its not when your press is functioning perfectly that you need to worry about. Its when you interrupt the process, that accidents happen.

I reload in a quiet room. NO TV, no cell phone, no distractions-Call me a grumpy middle age fat guy....but it works for me.

When setting up to reload, clean your work area. Label everything-Powder measure, the blue bin you drop the loaded rounds into, etc. Before you load take time to inspect your brass. If it even looks suspect-toss it. Garbage in equals garbage out. One crimped primer pocket can cause a lot a of grief. Keep a can of compressed air by the bench and blow off the shell plate and primer area every couple hundred rounds.

When you are reloading work towards developing a smooth consistent stroke. Come all the way down each time and come back to smoothly seat the primer. Some guys even go so far as to holding the back of the press while seating the primer. Relax, go slow and learn the correct feel for each step of the process.

Everyone needs a reloading mentor. See if you can have a seasoned reloader come over and check your press settings.

Edited October 7, 2013 by rdinga

[Sarge]

I agree with CZ regarding starting and stopping the process to check things often. This is the only time I ever worry about messing something up. The entire process works much better if you let the press run and do it's thing once you have everything dialed in. The powder drop set up does not sound right. You seem to have binding that causes the white thingy to pop off occasionally. There should not be anywhere near that much binding EVER. Loosen the powder hopper so it swivels freely then run the handle several times until it looks like the hopper finds the sweet spot. Make sure you ALWAYS push the handle back as if priming even if there is not a primer being seated. This is what allows the powder drop to be at it's fullest.

Position yourself so you can see into every case before seating a bullet. This often means standing up to reload. And buy a good LED light set up of some kind that shines directly onto the shell plate and into the case at the bullet seating station. The only sure fire way I have found to be sure of the powder charge being right is lots of light and looking directly into the case after charging. EVERY TIME!

A squib every 2-300 rounds is horrible quality control. Don't lose confidence, just adjust your loading habits like your life(at least your fingers)depends on it.

[rdinga]

I normally charge a cup of black coffee for new reloader house calls. the going rate in your area may be better or worse.

[Youngeyes]

Sarge is right on the binding. Shouldn't be happening. FWIW I remember having the same problem on a short cartridge(45acp). I had the two screws holding the collar on the powder measure too tight. The collar that clamps the powder measure to the powder die. It didn't happen with any of the longer brass such as 38 or 45 colt. Only at the end of the stroke and then it would bind. Also, what do you mean that there are times you can't get a primer to seat? Sounds like there are several areas that can cause a misloaded round. What ever the reason, you need to get a handle on it. Take it slow. See if someone locally can look at your setup and give you a hand.

[Sarge]

See if someone locally can look at your setup and give you a hand.

This is very good advice. I have had a few shooters take me up on my offer to help them get up and running. Nothing beats one on one, hands on help.

[GrumpyOne]

Could be static in the hopper not letting the powder drop....And I'd bet money that the squibs happen with the Universal powder and not the 231. Either way, nothing is a substitute for verifying the powder charge in EVERY case that gets loaded. I load on a 550, have for close to 10 years...probably close to 60k rounds loaded...I have never had a squib...KOW...

Leave the press alone once you get it working correctly. If you have an issue when reloading, and pull the case, pull all the cases, set them aside, and start over...Don't ever guess or "think" you did something...KNOW you did whatever it was.

And follow all the advice from the posters above...all of it is very sound.

And.....welcome to the forum...where are you located?

[Waterfowl-widowmaker]

I had always loaded on a single stage press but upgraded to a progressive a little over a year ago.

Long story short, I had a primer not seat and got out of sequence and wound up not dropping a powder charge in a case. Unknowingly to me, I loaded that round in my second magazine in a pretty good match. With 2 shots left to make and an 18 second lead over the guy that eventually won, the gun didn't go bang when I pulled the trigger. The primer had just enough power to push the bullet in the barrel but not enough to let it chamber the next round. Thank God I only lost about $650 worth of cash and prizes and not a $2000 gun and my fingers. I now have a RCBS lock out die.

[GrumpyOne]

I had always loaded on a single stage press but upgraded to a progressive a little over a year ago.

Long story short, I had a primer not seat and got out of sequence and wound up not dropping a powder charge in a case. Unknowingly to me, I loaded that round in my second magazine in a pretty good match. With 2 shots left to make and an 18 second lead over the guy that eventually won, the gun didn't go bang when I pulled the trigger. The primer had just enough power to push the bullet in the barrel but not enough to let it chamber the next round. Thank God I only lost about $650 worth of cash and prizes and not a $2000 gun and my fingers. I now have a RCBS lock out die.

Good example! But even still...do not place all your trust in mechanical gadgets, as they too, can fail. There is no substitute for the human eye, right YoungEyes?

[Quag]

I'm the OP. Just to let everyone know I do not listen to the radio, I turn off the TV, no kids anymore (thank God) and I visually check every load with the light setup. I am very aware of the concentration/focus issue. I should have mentioned last week when I had the undetected squib in a practice I mixed some 124 gr old rds that I reloaded last Feb when I did not have as good QC as I have now. I suspect the squib was from that batch.

This weekend I used my reloaded 147 gr ammo in a USPCA match and shot abt 200 rds and no misfires or squibs. I was pleased with the lack of recoil. Now that I think about it, its about 1 squib every 700-800 rds but even that's not acceptable.

I think I really need to get an experienced reloader over to the house.

I am located in Central Mass, outside Worcester.

BTW this advice resonated with me

"The powder drop set up does not sound right. You seem to have binding that causes the white thingy to pop off occasionally. There should not be anywhere near that much binding EVER. Loosen the powder hopper so it swivels freely then run the handle several times until it looks like the hopper finds the sweet spot. Make sure you ALWAYS push the handle back as if priming even if there is not a primer being seated. This is what allows the powder drop to be at it's fullest."

By trial and error I think I came to the same solution a couple of weeks ago. Its not binding up now, but I'm still not happy with the stroke. I destroyed one white "thingy".Also I know I have not pushed the handle forward in the case a primer was not being seated. However, I do not like the accuracy on the powder drop. If I set it for 3.6 grs and I try it later later it could be 3.6, 3.7 or 3.5. It seems there is a 0.1 to 0.2 gr error. I do not know if that normal. Also if a primer does not seat on the first try no more for that cartridge, to the trash.

[GrumpyOne]

There are a few powders that just don't meter well out of a 550...I don't think the ones you have are any of those...clean the powder hopper and put a dryer sheet in there...cut down the electro-static...try to make you use the same stroke every round...polish the powder funnel...

[Youngeyes]

"I think I really need to get an experienced reloader over to the house."

There's your answer Quag. Well said.

[Sarge]

"I think I really need to get an experienced reloader over to the house."

There's your answer Quag. Well said.

And trust me, there are some great folks on this forum who will be stepping up to come over and get you squared away.

[DillonBlue]

This is a great reminder to all of us who are new to reloading to really stay focused. Thank's for posting it!

[Quag]

OP update after redoubling my QC efforts and slowing down reloading I shot a USPSA match and a IDPA for a total of abt 350 rds with no problems real testcomes this weekend at a USPSA match.

Still going to get an experienced reloader to come over.

[njl]

If you had a squib (little or no powder), I would think you'd notice it. I've had a couple, all from one bad run of .45acp, and in each case, it was obvious from lack of "bang" or recoil and manual extraction of a case with no bullet that it was time to stop and clear a squib. Do you really think it's possible you missed that and the resulting next shot, which I assume must have sounded/felt unusual when you sent two bullets downrange at once?

Also, if you're using jacketed/plated bullets, why the aftermarket barrel?

IIRC, someone posted recently about shooting plated bullets and finding rings of plating in their chamber. I wonder if that could have happened to you?

BTW, depending on who's data you believe, 3.6gr Universal and a 147gr bullet is beyond max for jacketed bullets...which would worry me if your 147s are plated.

[Quag]

Sure got the right powder? I know at least 4 reloaders that use Hodgdon U. Abt 3.5 to 3.6 fr 147 plated or not. Its not Tite or Clays. Actually Im using Winc 231 ran out HUC

I chrono my loads and just make PF with 231

[njl]

Look at Hodgdon's online load data. Their 147gr Universal data is for a JHP and really short OAL...but they list 3.3gr as max. I'd read about other sources claiming 3.5gr as max. I've gone as far as 3.5gr with 147gr FMJ or X-Treme plated...but as far as I know, you're basically right at (if not beyond) max.

[earthshine402]

I know it has been stated already, but in my opinion, the absolute key thing here is to get a nice light and look in every case before you put that bullet on there. I have this one clamped onto my case feeder pole on my 650: http://www.target.com/p/room-essentials-task-lamp-black/-/A-11841590#prodSlot=medium_1_25&term=clip+light

You should get used to the powder level after a little bit. Once, I had a case with a bunch of spider webs and as I was going, it looked like I almost had a double-charge, so I immediately stopped and inspected.

Also, minimize inturruptions in the loading process. Be extra careful when "starting back up" again. The press does get hung up occasionally for whatever reason, and it is best to be very deliberate during troubleshooting times. Do not scramble around trying to fix it quickly.

[mgrs]

A lot of good advice in this thread.

Can you run a lockout die in station 3? Relying in gadgets in not the right answer, but it does add another layer of safety redundancy and you can still watch your charges. I use an RCBS lockout on my .45 toolhead and it will pick up >1.5gr variances and stop everything. It's nice to have with dense powders and lighter .45 Major lead loads. On my 650, station 1 is size/decap, station 2 is prime/charge, station 3 is visual/mechanical charge check, station 4 is seat, station 5 is crimp.

I only pull charged cases from station 3 (empty or check die station) and never from station 2 (charging) to check weights unless there is a press malfunction.

All ammunition that is going to the range is placed primer-up in MTM 100rd boxes so that I can mark case heads and check primer seat depth. I use a lot of S&B and NATO brass, which can lead to seating problems. I can see unprimed brass and run my hand over each 100rd box and feel poorly seated primers.

[Quag]

A lot of good advice in this thread.

All ammunition that is going to the range is placed primer-up in MTM 100rd boxes so that I can mark case heads and check primer seat depth. I use a lot of S&B and NATO brass, which can lead to seating problems. I can see unprimed brass and run my hand over each 100rd box and feel poorly seated primers.

One of the things I did to increase my QC is to reject any case where the primer did not seat properly on the first try (550B), I have had the light on my primers for awhile now and I have been checking each one. I'm failry sure my squib was not a light load. I know what a squib sounds like and the SO and I did not hear one.

[Quag]

Look at Hodgdon's online load data. Their 147gr Universal data is for a JHP and really short OAL...but they list 3.3gr as max. I'd read about other sources claiming 3.5gr as max. I've gone as far as 3.5gr with 147gr FMJ or X-Treme plated...but as far as I know, you're basically right at (if not beyond) max.

I'll look again when I get home, but right now I have been using 231 for my 147 gr. And the rounds just roll out of the barrel and this 3.6 chrono's at about 950 to 990 fps, low recoil. This is above the PF of 125, I was thinking of going down to less than 3.6 with 231 maybe 3.4. I do not only use Hodgdon I use Lyman and other reloading guides.

[PinoyShooter06]

please let me know if the method I list below helps avoiding a SQUIB.(this is just me)

1. always make sure you have enough powder on powder tube.

2. get a low-powder sensor (optional but also important)

3. always make sure that you see a powder on that shell before you drop the bullet for seating (don't assume)

4. avoid talking to somebody or multi-tasking if you are reloading.

5. if, you need to attend or do something important, finish or remove the remaining casings on the shell plate

and start all over again when you have the time.

6. separate loaded bullets every 100 rounds/batch (this is just me) so if you start wondering if you miss a powder or not. you can

just easily determine what batch.

7. always make sure about your bullet/powder weight, OAL , primer seating , and case gauge all you ammo.

8. avoid mixing powders (make sure you have the same powder before you add some more.( I always make a note/tape on the powder tube what kind of powder)

9. if, you are reloading lead bullets (always use a glove to avoid contact or minimize contact with lead.

thanks for reading this and please let me know if there some more I need to know to be a safe and happy reloader.

[Sarge]

please let me know if the method I list below helps avoiding a SQUIB.(this is just me)

1. always make sure you have enough powder on powder tube. I always fill before each session

2. get a low-powder sensor (optional but also important) Save your money and just make sure you never skip #3 below

3. always make sure that you see a powder on that shell before you drop the bullet for seating (don't assume) This is the number one key to avoiding squibs

4. avoid talking to somebody or multi-tasking if you are reloading. Good idea but once you get better at reloading you can handle this a little better

5. if, you need to attend or do something important, finish or remove the remaining casings on the shell plate I generally lower the handle on the press and leave the plate loaded if I am coming right back

and start all over again when you have the time.

6. separate loaded bullets every 100 rounds/batch (this is just me) so if you start wondering if you miss a powder or not. you can

just easily determine what batch. If you use step #3 this is unnecessary

7. always make sure about your bullet/powder weight, OAL , primer seating , and case gauge all you ammo. Excellent QC measures

8. avoid mixing powders (make sure you have the same powder before you add some more.( I always make a note/tape on the powder tube what kind of powder) I use blue painters tape on the hopper with powder and weight

9. if, you are reloading lead bullets (always use a glove to avoid contact or minimize contact with lead. Has nothing to do with preventing squibs but good practice I guess. I don't mess with lead and just wash my hands alot

thanks for reading this and please let me know if there some more I need to know to be a safe and happy reloader.

Flood the press with light to help eyeball the powder in the case.