Which CZ Custom hammer for my new Tactical Sport

[EngineerEli]

So I just installed the Short Wide CZC hammer along with grips, mag well, extra wide thumb safety, and the flat aluminum trigger.

Here is a pic:

I'm posting because I'm surprised to be less than thrilled with it. The strange thing is I cant even put my finger on what doesn't feel right. One thing I notice is that because the hammer hooks are cut shallower, the sear stays higher and it moves the trigger brake back further. This is resulting in a trigger break when the flat trigger is about 15 degrees from vertical closer to the rear. I feel like it would feel better if it broke closer to the vertical, anyone ever figured out a way to do this? I would think it would entail lengthening the trigger bar somehow. Also, I switched from the stock hammer spring (~18# I think) to the 16# so I'm not sure if that is effecting anything. The other thing that is bugging me is to get the trigger adjusted correctly, both adjustment screws are jacked WAY out, too far to remain reliable where they are.

Any thoughts?

Edited October 30, 2013 by EngineerEli

[IronicTwitch]

Curious if you go back to the original grip with the new trigger? I didn't spend much time with the original grips but the finger placement was a big adjustment from my 75b with rubber grips.

[kneelingatlas]

First off, you can replace the screws with M3x0.5 set screws of the length you want. Second, you might like the feel of a 20# hammer spring; the break will be more crisp.

[EngineerEli]

So, I sawpped out th 16lb hammer spring and went back to the factory one. Checked the pull and it is right arround 2 lbs. I determined the flat trigger comes with a 4mm over travel and 5mm pre travel screws, but the factory trigger has 6mm for each. So I moved the 5mm to the over travel and took a 6mm from the stock trigger for the pre travel and now the engagement is much better. I fitted the safety to the new hammer while I was at it. I think it is just goung to take a little getting used to the break point, I may still experiment with moving it forward.

[EngineerEli]

I ended up just putting the factory plastic trigger back in. I took a pic of the two triggers with pins through both set of holes to line them up. You can see how far back the flat aluminum trigger really is, made my finger want to slide down it. Interestingly enough, when I put the stock trigger back in, granted I did polish up the trigger bar a little better, the pull weight went down from 2# to 1-5/8#, and the little bit of creep I was troubleshooting went away. My opinion flat triggers are great for 1911/2011's but not on guns where the trigger pivots. But hey, your mileage may vary.

New idea for the hammers, if we were to want to shave a little more weight off of it with out bobbing it all together is there any reason you couldn't file or machine a slot down the middle of the cocking portion like on the Koenig hammer for 1911/2011's? I'm thinking about trying it on my old one, or an airsoft one or something... I realize this may not be entirely "necessary" but I'm just thinking aloud.

Edited November 6, 2013 by EngineerEli

[kneelingatlas]

Eli,

I'm going to have to take some pictures of my latest experiment: I took a Tanfo hammer, cut it down completely flush, then milled out a recess in the back. It's very light and very snappy. Unfortunately my drill press and milling vice are not the most precise so the bit walked on me a little, but call it a rough draft...

[kneelingatlas]

[EngineerEli]

I love the ingenuity kneelingatlas!

Here is my first test of my slotted hammer idea with weights. I talked to one of they machinists at work and he may be able to help me actually try the same thing with an end mill, to keep things a little cleaner and straighter. For this one I just started with a small square file, but because it was just a proof of concept, and I was growing impatient, I broke out the dremel.

You can see this one weighed in at .333 oz, and the factory narrow hammer was .394 oz which gives us a .061 oz savings. (15.5%) I would assume a very similar savings around .061 oz on the TS or any of the competition hammers for the same type of cut.

[EngineerEli]

I had my friend in the machine shop at work help me machine the slot into my factory TS hammer. It came out much better than my at home version. I also sanded the edges and cold blued the whole thing.

It feels pretty good! It came in at 0.654 oz with the strut and pin (couldn't get them off). That was from the factory configuration of 0.748 oz. (reduced by 0.094 oz) Still not quite the feel of the ultra light hammer on my SV, but it is definitely a step in the right direction.

Edited November 16, 2013 by EngineerEli

[EngineerEli]

Here are a few other weights including my CZC short wide hammer for reference.

I'm hope this information will be helpful to someone in the future. I know I would have loved to have all this information before I get started on this project. (But I guess where would the fun be in that...)

[kneelingatlas]

That's some great info Eli. I shot my Hunter with the hammer installed and I had quite a few light strikes. I've got some heavy springs I want to try.

[EngineerEli]

I had my friend in the machine shop at work help me machine the slot into my factory TS hammer. It came out much better than my at home version. I also sanded the edges and cold blued the whole thing.

It feels pretty good! It came in at 0.654 oz with the strut and pin (couldn't get them off). That was from the factory configuration of 0.748 oz. (reduced by 0.094 oz) Still not quite the feel of the ultra light hammer on my SV, but it is definitely a step in the right direction.

20131115_182516 (1280x720).jpg20131115_182605 (1280x720).jpg20131115_224134 (720x1280).jpg20131115_224146 (1280x720).jpg

So far I'm very happy with the results, and I have a match on Wednesday to test it out. I am thinking about doing the same thing to my CZC Competition hammer, to bring the reset back down a little shorter.

Before I start cutting into it though, I wanted to ask if anyone thinks this modification, with the slot, could weaken the hammer and cause breakage problems down the road. I am just concerned about the sharp inside corners of the cut causing stress risers. The hammer is after all pretty heavily battered during use. Does anyone know if the Koenig hammers have a shorter life than normal ones? Do they have sharp corners on the inside of the cut down the middle of them?

[Czhase]

Here is a close up of one on my 1911, looks to have a very very slight radius on the inside corners.

[Czhase]

Sorry, here it is.

[huskerlrrp]

I had my friend in the machine shop at work help me machine the slot into my factory TS hammer. It came out much better than my at home version. I also sanded the edges and cold blued the whole thing.

It feels pretty good! It came in at 0.654 oz with the strut and pin (couldn't get them off). That was from the factory configuration of 0.748 oz. (reduced by 0.094 oz) Still not quite the feel of the ultra light hammer on my SV, but it is definitely a step in the right direction.

20131115_182516 (1280x720).jpg20131115_182605 (1280x720).jpg20131115_224134 (720x1280).jpg20131115_224146 (1280x720).jpg

So far I'm very happy with the results, and I have a match on Wednesday to test it out. I am thinking about doing the same thing to my CZC Competition hammer, to bring the reset back down a little shorter.

Before I start cutting into it though, I wanted to ask if anyone thinks this modification, with the slot, could weaken the hammer and cause breakage problems down the road. I am just concerned about the sharp inside corners of the cut causing stress risers. The hammer is after all pretty heavily battered during use. Does anyone know if the Koenig hammers have a shorter life than normal ones? Do they have sharp corners on the inside of the cut down the middle of them?

Why not use a ball end mill? You get the benefit of the doubt if there are some side loads to cause some stress in the corners. My educated guess is that it doesn't matter in this area, for this purpose. Besides, we are all doing some stupid stuff to our firearms...just because.

[EngineerEli]

Ran about 100 rds at the range last night with my machined hammer. It ran great, definitely felt different (better to me). No light strikes, with the factory hammer spring I am using. I have an actual match tonight I am going to try here at so we'll see how that goes.

Yes the ball end mill would be the better tool for the job, but my machine shop at work doesn't have any. I may try to find one before i go cutting up my CZC competition hammer, just to be on the safe side.

[Czhase]

There are also corner radius end mills. Kind of in between square and ball mill.

[EngineerEli]

Glad to hear they exist, the curiosity of them had come to mind. That would be the RIGHT tool for the job. Any suggestion on where to get an 1/8" one that would hold up to the hard/possibly hardened metal of this hammer? At a reasonable price I hope.

[Czhase]

Here is a link to one. I am currently on a waiting list for a Tac Sport, can't wait to see how this turns out.

http://m.grainger.com/mobile/product/OSG-Carbide-End-Mill-30L660

Edited November 20, 2013 by Czhase

[kneelingatlas]

I got an 1/8" carbide ball end mill bid from my local bad ass hardware store for $13; they sell it online here: http://www.marshallshardware.com/products/product.aspx?pid=758-760-776-793-17103&lid=1

[EngineerEli]

Ok so between the ones below which one would be best. The coatings and maybe quality seem to be all that is different. I will say the ones I had been using didn't hold up too well. Niagara brand 4 flute square end carbide mill. I snapped the first one twice, then on the second I noticed one of the 4 flutes has broken at the end and the rest don't look too hot. You can see the finish wasn't the prettiest thing ever. For some reason the cutting length was about an inch though so it allowed for much more deflection that it looks like any of these would.

(Czhase I think one of those is the same one you linked to just cheaper)

http://www.kodiakcuttingtools.com/productdisplay.asp?series=740&parttohighlight=TC74003&gclid=CLTEwO-k9LoCFeYWMgodWEMA7A

http://www.kodiakcuttingtools.com/productdisplay.asp?series=741&parttohighlight=TC74104&gclid=CPXujLul9LoCFepaMgodBAYAMg

http://www.idgsupply.com/p/OSG-Tools-496-125111-4-Flute-Carbide-End-Mills-Inch-Center-Cutting-Corner-Radius-TiAlN-Cutting-Diameter-1-8-496-I8HG7OO8J2VN?c1=GAW_SE_NW&source=PLA_USA&kw=P8HG7OO5B7N5_I8HG7OO8J2VN&cr6=pla&cr2=eCommerce__-__PLAs__-__All_Products&cr7=c&utm_source=GAW_SE_NWPLA_USA&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=all_products&keyword=all_products&mm_campaign=2d1af69afdb99cb3d6ff512fc3dcc96b

[Czhase]

The Kodiak with the ALTIN coating looks good, plus they give you a couple of different options on radius.

[EngineerEli]

I ended up with the one from Grainger, I could pick it up locally. I cut up the competition hammer last Wednesday and it turned out pretty well. I ended up a little off center and didn't notice till it was too late. I may go back at a later date and try to even it out, or just leave it as a reminder to measure twice and cut once. (It was my first time running the mill all by myself though!) I have a match tomorrow night so it will try it out then.

Pics:

Edited December 3, 2013 by EngineerEli

[alma]

So what's the verdict on the new Czechmate hammer over the CZC Comp hammers? I saw one post mentioning that it lightened the pull but didn't hear about whether there is a tradeoff with other aspects of the feel of the trigger.

I hate to say that I don't like the looks as much and have to think that it would make it hard to manually cock the hammer.

Any observations?

Edited December 15, 2013 by alma

[kneelingatlas]

Alma, the way I have my TS set up I don't know if there's any 'feel' to describe; very little pre travel, very little over travel, just point and click. If you prefer the looks of the old one I don't think there's a reason to change. The difference in pull weight I saw was likely due to the evolution of my polishing technique between hammers; as far as I could tell the hooks are exactly the same.