Chuckie45 Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 Where I live the only range reasonably close enough to practice on is very anti-steel targets. I got an exception to policy from one of the board members, but others are starting to grumble and looking to exsponge my special privileges. Does anyone know of any resources that thoroughly and authoritatively discuss the safety issues associated with shooting steel? More specifically why it's okay with in certain limits. Thanks, Chuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amish_rabbi Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 Mgm has a very long and large write up on it, but a good example of how safe it is is the 5k+ round shot every year at the worlds for the last 20 years with no injuries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stick Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 Steel is very safe to shoot at a minimum distance of 10 yards. Just need to be weary of double taps on falling poppers as it creates some extreme angles for the bullets. Plate racks are very safe to shoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.E. Kelley Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 (edited) What they ^^^ said with the provision that you are using well built and properly engineered targets. Cratered target faces (mild steel) create wicket lead return devices, as do right angle ledges. MGM Targets have a stellar reputation for build and design excellence! Edited August 19, 2013 by P.E. Kelley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amish_rabbi Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 Steel is very safe to shoot at a minimum distance of 10 yards. Just need to be weary of double taps on falling poppers as it creates some extreme angles for the bullets. Plate racks are very safe to shoot. in my experience with proper steel 7 yards is just fine, this is also the minimum distance for a steel challenge match Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckie45 Posted August 18, 2013 Author Share Posted August 18, 2013 Here's what I got from MGM "How close can I shoot steel? MGM strongly discourages shooting ANY steel closer than 15 yards. Period. Shooters AND spectators (especially children) should always wear ear AND eye protection, regardless of target composition (steel or paper). Any closer than 15 yards presents a significant risk of the shooter or spectators being hit by bullet fragments. Generally speaking, MGM targets will easily handle hits from any traditional defense caliber handgun without significant marking. Regarding bullet fragments hitting shooters and/or onlookers, ANYTIME you are shooting steel, this is a possibility. I don't know anybody who has shot steel, that hasn't been hit by a fragment hard enough for it to draw blood. It is usually so insignificant that it doesn't even require a BAND-AID®, but I suppose that it could be much worse. The MAIN reason bullet fragments hit people is because the surface of the target is damaged. Damage is usually the result of 1) the target was shot with a rifle (or shotgun slug, or .44 Mag -or larger-), or 2) the steel was too soft to be a satisfactory target, in which case, traditional pistol rounds could have damaged it, or 3) any combination of the above. If the target face is smooth, bullets hit it and splatter like an egg thrown against a wall. If it is dimpled or cratered, bullets hit it and ricochet out of the craters in any direction. I personally know of bullet fragments from a high powered rifle that flew back over 200 yards, to then hit the wall behind the shooter. (That was NOT an MGM target!!) Damaged steel should not be used, even with extreme caution, regardless of the distance the shooter is from the target." Ruger Rimfire minimum is 7 yards. USPSA minimum is 10 meters. IDPA's minimum is 10 yards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seth Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 It isn't safe. You're shooting at a target who's movement is unpredictable. Sure you can bet on the physics of a dead middle shot, but what about an edger? Now all bets are off. With that said, there are a lot of variables that make shooting steel predictable. One of them is distance. Another is steel of a proper thickness and hardness so as to create a repeatable reaction when the bullet impacts. In reality, the best you can demonstrate for a reluctant board is a host of precautions. For example, "I don't engage steel at a distance less than the uspsa mandated distance, I'm shooting at new steel without pockmarks that's of sufficient hardness to flatten the projectile and targets are setup so that loose rounds are captured within the depths of the bay..." If they're out for blood, you're most likely in trouble in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckie45 Posted August 19, 2013 Author Share Posted August 19, 2013 I think you're absolutely right Seth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joseywales Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 Good info here... http://www.nationalpolicesupply.com/pdf/The_Truth_About_Steel_Targets.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskapopo Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 Here's what I got from MGM "How close can I shoot steel? MGM strongly discourages shooting ANY steel closer than 15 yards. Period. Shooters AND spectators (especially children) should always wear ear AND eye protection, regardless of target composition (steel or paper). Any closer than 15 yards presents a significant risk of the shooter or spectators being hit by bullet fragments. Generally speaking, MGM targets will easily handle hits from any traditional defense caliber handgun without significant marking. Regarding bullet fragments hitting shooters and/or onlookers, ANYTIME you are shooting steel, this is a possibility. I don't know anybody who has shot steel, that hasn't been hit by a fragment hard enough for it to draw blood. It is usually so insignificant that it doesn't even require a BAND-AID®, but I suppose that it could be much worse. The MAIN reason bullet fragments hit people is because the surface of the target is damaged. Damage is usually the result of 1) the target was shot with a rifle (or shotgun slug, or .44 Mag -or larger-), or 2) the steel was too soft to be a satisfactory target, in which case, traditional pistol rounds could have damaged it, or 3) any combination of the above. If the target face is smooth, bullets hit it and splatter like an egg thrown against a wall. If it is dimpled or cratered, bullets hit it and ricochet out of the craters in any direction. I personally know of bullet fragments from a high powered rifle that flew back over 200 yards, to then hit the wall behind the shooter. (That was NOT an MGM target!!) Damaged steel should not be used, even with extreme caution, regardless of the distance the shooter is from the target." Ruger Rimfire minimum is 7 yards. USPSA minimum is 10 meters. IDPA's minimum is 10 yards. Forgive me for not having the rule book handy but USPSA minimum distance for steel is 7 yards I believe. When I went to the RO class it was said you are supposed to put a fault line at 10 yards and if they fire in front of that its a pro but if they go closer than 7 yards its a DQ. Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joseywales Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 Forgive me for not having the rule book handy but USPSA minimum distance for steel is 7 yards I believe. When I went to the RO class it was said you are supposed to put a fault line at 10 yards and if they fire in front of that its a pro but if they go closer than 7 yards its a DQ. Pat USPSA minimum distance is 23 feet if physical barrier in place (barrels, low wall, etc), and 26 feet if no physical barrier in place (2.1.3). Engaging metal target closer than 23 feet is a DQ (10.5.17) Nothing in rules about a procedural penalty for engaging steel at less than 26 feet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskapopo Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 Forgive me for not having the rule book handy but USPSA minimum distance for steel is 7 yards I believe. When I went to the RO class it was said you are supposed to put a fault line at 10 yards and if they fire in front of that its a pro but if they go closer than 7 yards its a DQ. Pat USPSA minimum distance is 23 feet if physical barrier in place (barrels, low wall, etc), and26 feet if no physical barrier in place (2.1.3). Engaging metal target closer than 23 feet is a DQ (10.5.17) Nothing in rules about a procedural penalty for engaging steel at less than 26 feet. Thanks for posting that. Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkrispies Posted August 27, 2013 Share Posted August 27, 2013 One of the most important safety tips with regards to steel is to use ammo that is moving at a velocity of at least 750fps when it strikes the SMOOTH plate. This best allows the projectile to disintegrate upon impact. Bear in mind that if you're shooting a slow moving 230gr .45acp, for example, at a steel target sufficiently far away that its velocity drops below 750fps prior to impact, it is more likely to come back at you than a faster moving projectile. Having said all that, I've had splatter come back at me pretty doggone hard. Real, real hard! It happens. Can anyone say that shooting at steel can be made 100% safe? Of course not. Heck, I've heard richocet's fly in my direction when they've hit dirt berms. That's shooting. That's why we're required to sign waivers at gun ranges but not at tennis courts. It's also why spectators don't sue baseball teams when they clocked by fly balls while sitting in the stands-- there's an implied acceptance of risk when engaging in certain activities, even as a spectator. Folks who aren't willing to accept that risk need to stay home and, from the safety of their La-Z-Boys, hear the stories from their friends about their happy lives filled with bumps and bruises. Just a little rant, you may now return to your regularly scheduled reading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckie45 Posted September 19, 2013 Author Share Posted September 19, 2013 Found this high speed video. It shows bullet impacts on verious surfaces. pretty cool to watch. At about the 6:30 mark it starts showing the impact on a suffeciently hard surface, to include edge hits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlamphere Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 The video is so cool. Thanks for posting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckie45 Posted September 24, 2013 Author Share Posted September 24, 2013 No more shooting steel at this range, but I found another that will allow it at a minimum of 25 meters. a little challenging for a texas star, but I guess I work my longer range game with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
40S&W Posted November 28, 2013 Share Posted November 28, 2013 Look at the Palmyra, PA PSA Shootout. Hundreds of shooters over 4 day period in April, 6 stages, over 150 steel plates. Look at their safety record. Do you get hit from splatter fragments sometimes? Of course. Shot it for 6 years now and would not miss this shoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken_Bird Posted November 28, 2013 Share Posted November 28, 2013 Steel is very safe to shoot at a minimum distance of 10 yards. Just need to be weary of double taps on falling poppers as it creates some extreme angles for the bullets. Plate racks are very safe to shoot. The Dallas Pistol club shoots Steel Targets Two full weekends a month. This has been done for 20+ years. Add to this our range is right in the middle of town, not out in the country. We have very strict safety rules and all our RO's inforce these. Steel Plates, Poppers, Stagnant targets, they all work well. If upir club would like to talk to us about how to safely do this, we are happy to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckie45 Posted December 1, 2013 Author Share Posted December 1, 2013 I found another range to practice at. Problem solved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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