Alaskapopo Posted September 3, 2013 Share Posted September 3, 2013 If your looking for a tiny red dot in sun light, from the back of the berm, all the way to the target, you might be better off looking at the bullet holes. The only thing I use lasers for is shooting varmints around the house after dark. Lasers do work well indoors and at night when most shootings occur. Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Koski Posted September 3, 2013 Share Posted September 3, 2013 If you want to shot red dot, why not USPSA? Because there is a place for hi tech carry guns. Many guys are starting to run RMR and Delta points on their work and carry guns. If IDPA does not adapt with the times its destined to be a 1990's SASS. By "many guys" do you mean 25% of CCW holders? What is your estimate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted September 3, 2013 Share Posted September 3, 2013 If you want to shot red dot, why not USPSA? Because there is a place for hi tech carry guns. Many guys are starting to run RMR and Delta points on their work and carry guns. If IDPA does not adapt with the times its destined to be a 1990's SASS. By "many guys" do you mean 25% of CCW holders? What is your estimate? Probably 'more' than there are guys ccw-ing 2011's with big fat magwells. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Koski Posted September 3, 2013 Share Posted September 3, 2013 Is that 25%? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikerburgess Posted September 3, 2013 Share Posted September 3, 2013 If you want to shot red dot, why not USPSA? Because there is a place for hi tech carry guns. Many guys are starting to run RMR and Delta points on their work and carry guns. If IDPA does not adapt with the times its destined to be a 1990's SASS. By "many guys" do you mean 25% of CCW holders? What is your estimate? Are you saying, in order to be a group with value to IDPA that there has to be a certain percentage of CCW holders that carry that type of weapon? Also is that CCW holers in general or CCW holders that actually carry daily or CCW holders that are IDPA members or CCW holders that carry daily and are IDPA members? regardless of the demographic chosen I would love to see the results of that survey, I think if such a survey was used to form the equipment divisions I bet they would look nothing like the divisions we have now. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Koski Posted September 3, 2013 Share Posted September 3, 2013 I'm not saying anything. Alaska said "Many guys are starting to..." as I quoted. I was wondering how many, percentage wise. .001%, 1%, 25%? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted September 3, 2013 Share Posted September 3, 2013 Well, I think it really doesn't matter what percentage of humans are using carry-optics. Laser sights like crimson trace have become pretty popular too, and IDPA's lack of desire to incorporate them into some aspect of the sport sort of indicates that the whole 'real-world' and 'self-defense' parts are just lip service. I think the correct approach is the outlaw (or whatever the official name is) division, so you can just see who all shows up, and with what. Hopefully, the 'outlaw' scores will still be listed in the meaningful results (i.e., the unofficial 'overall'), and hopefully clubs will make some notes about what sort of non-idpa gear is being used. Not that I really care. I'm a gamer, so I have a special competition-only gun, special competition only holster, special competition only ammo and special competition-only vest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stick Posted September 3, 2013 Share Posted September 3, 2013 Wow! you guys are totally out of control! I was recommending he shoot open with an optic or red dot. you guys need to chill out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steel1212 Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 If you want to shot red dot, why not USPSA?Because there is a place for hi tech carry guns. Many guys are starting to run RMR and Delta points on their work and carry guns. If IDPA does not adapt with the times its destined to be a 1990's SASS. You mean like allowing .40 in CDP...oh wait lol. If they won't allow .40 in CDP surely space age lazzzzzers and red dots won't be allowed :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 If you want to shot red dot, why not USPSA?Because there is a place for hi tech carry guns. Many guys are starting to run RMR and Delta points on their work and carry guns. If IDPA does not adapt with the times its destined to be a 1990's SASS. You mean like allowing .40 in CDP...oh wait lol. If they won't allow .40 in CDP surely space age lazzzzzers and red dots won't be allowed :-) I personally am OK with protecting the 1911 in a special affirmative-action class, because I like my 1911 more than I like crappy plastic guns, and I even like it in .45. But yeah, some way of taking advantage of 40 major (almost certainly the most popular law-enforcement cartridge in the US) would actually have something to do with the real world (meow). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikerburgess Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 I'm not saying anything. Alaska said "Many guys are starting to..." as I quoted. I was wondering how many, percentage wise. .001%, 1%, 25%? No problem I have no idea what the percentage is, I do know that locally (Oregon) I have ROed at least three new shooters at USPSA and speed steel matches that were using their dot equipped carry guns, and I know many shooters with laser equipped guns they carry but don't compete with. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskapopo Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 (edited) If you want to shot red dot, why not USPSA? Because there is a place for hi tech carry guns. Many guys are starting to run RMR and Delta points on their work and carry guns. If IDPA does not adapt with the times its destined to be a 1990's SASS. By "many guys" do you mean 25% of CCW holders? What is your estimate? Not as much with CCW holders but cops, military folks etc. Hard to put a percentage on it. But based on training attendance I would say around 5% and growing. I am thinking hard about putting an RMR on my duty gun a Glock 17. CCW holders generally are not shooting their carry guns at matches anyway. If you are not moving forward you are moving backward. Edited September 4, 2013 by Alaskapopo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreeHeadedDog Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 I have been considering an dot equiped gun for carry myself. It would seem that for most CCW IDPA type shooters(yes i am stereotyping and generalizing, please dont be offended) the dots are actually being used on short carry guns to compensate for their short sight radius. I understand that the "open-guns" could be used in a way that many IDPA shooters would see as non-IDPA-esk, but lets face it if you are really shooting IDPA not for the game than you shouldnt worry about the gamers. I think most would just like to be able to shoot their carry gun(weather that is a M&P with a docter or god forbid a gun with a full length dust-cover) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 It would seem that for most CCW IDPA type shooters(yes i am stereotyping and generalizing, please dont be offended) the dots are actually being used on short carry guns to compensate for their short sight radius. Or for the failing eyesight of the elderly. Not that I'm saying IDPA is for the folks that are too old for USPSA, I've just noticed that in competition, alot of people switch to open when their eyes stop working well enough to see iron sights, so I speculate that the same may be true for ccw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forrest Halley Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 Lasers should definitely be allowed in the bug gun shoots. They are by far the most heavily equipped with lasers out of all types of carry guns. The red dot equipped guns are becoming more and more practical each day and folks are carrying them. It's no longer a C-More on top of a 1911 that's nine feet long with a seventeen chamber compensator. Small guns with small dot sights are becoming very convenient for older folks and folks that have a need/desire for a smaller pistol and are looking to make up for shorter sight radius or poor low profile sights. I too feel that these are far more along the lines of carry guns than a shaved magwell 2011 or a long glock that defies the rules by virtue of a factory slide lightening cut. It's coming back to the same thing that CDP started out with: because it's not being sold out of Arkansas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcc7x7 Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 Prior to M&P Core. I milled the rear of my M&P slide to fit a Leupold Delta Point sight and carried it everyday for 2 years. Shot lots of local defense matches with it from my "carry" holster not my blade-tech/Comp-Tech holster. Then sold it to a friend of mine with acute vision problem and he carries it every day in an IWB holster that he carried his regular M&P in. He has now equipped his two other m&p's with Delta Points. Again because he can use the guns again and enjoy shooting and feel more confident carrying because as he says it. "I can hit what I'm shooting at, cause I can see my sight again." Glad IDPA put in the local match provision. lets face it the great majority never go to big shoots or the nat's. So they can shoot and still enjoy comparing there scores against their friends etc. I shoot ESR and always look at how I compared to the CDP and ESP guys. "For what its worth!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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