CocoBolo Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 I've been using a Weaver 1x3 for a few 2-3 Gun & Carbine matches, while most will say that there are mostly up close shots, that is true but the long range courses have been my down fall with the rifle. While I've hit some long shots by using my noggin I'm looking for something that will let me be faster on the long shots, eliminate most of the brain work and guessing while still letting me shoot the short range stuff as well as a plain set of cross hairs. I shoot open so I could hang a red dot on top of my PERP mount rings, have several, just not sure it wouldn't be confusing to have two options. Having read most of the threads and thinking that MarkCo is pretty clever in these matters the BURRIS 1-4X24mm MTAC30 BALLISITC CQ 5.56 RET MAT if that is the correct one he recommneds comes to the top of the list. On Sale for $359. I have 20-10 long distance vision, however my fixed implant lens don't work very well up close, illetirate if you will without reading glasses. So a recitcal I can't read isn't going to work very well. Is this the one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hpnewby Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 Or the Tac30 for $100 less. I've been very satisfied with mine. Very fast on 1X. Seems to be pretty tough. No zero shift. Predictable movements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinecone Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 I have the MTAC and really like it. The TAC30 is pretty much the same, the entire objective rotates for power change and the illumination is a push button instead of the dial. I have a Millett on a 15-22 and it is NOT very good. I will probably sell it soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harleypilot Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 Optisan 1-4X Mamba 30mm on my ar15 has been perfect. $168.00 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
venatic Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 Where is it on sale at? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
APL-G35 Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 Mtac 1-4 works great I have made 1st round hits out to 500 with it. The reticle wasn't my favorite when I got it but the more I use it the more I like it. MarkCo won't lead you astray with his recommendations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flatland Shooter Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 Where is it on sale at? Not sure where Ron is looking but Lanbo's Armory has them for just under $345. http://lanbosarmory.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=15&products_id=13747 Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CocoBolo Posted June 12, 2013 Author Share Posted June 12, 2013 Grafs.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loneranger04 Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 I started with the Tac30 and it's a great scope for the money but back then the MTAC was $100 more and now they can be had for under $350 and the Tac30 is still $300 or so. I think it's hard to beat these scopes. Hold zero for ever and take quite a beating being shoved in barrels and knocked about so much. I recently have went to a XTR for better glass but I'm not sure I'm going to like the reticle as well as the Tac30. I've gotten used to that thing and it's impossible to not see it on the hoser stages. The Tac 30 doesn't have the fine dot for long shots but in 3 gun the plates on the long shots usually are big enough that a fine dot isn't important at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskapopo Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 The Vortex 1-4 PST (close to 400 a bit over) or the MTAC. The MTAC is great except for the reticle being a bit too big for pesky poppers at 100 yards. Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Gundry Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 The TAC30 is decent, but the switch is a bit of a pain. The MTAC is definitely a step up and worth stretching the budget. The Optisan 1-4X Mamba looks interesting. Maybe worth trying if you can find a cat-tail/throw lever for it. The Vortex mount also looks great at ~$90, with it's only downfall being that it's made in China (hard to find a good mount under $180 that isn't though). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1911 S.I.S.sy Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 I've had both the buris xtr and the vortex pst. I vote the vortex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CocoBolo Posted June 12, 2013 Author Share Posted June 12, 2013 (edited) Looking at the candidate recticles, the Burris is very simple, but totally dependent on the ammo being withing the calibration, if not you are back to guessing but you do have a good reference point. The center dot is 2.4" at 100 yards so yes that will pretty well cover the round protion of a pesky popper at that distance. The Capped Vortex PST is more of a rifelman's scope with Mrad markings which mean you will need to crono your ammo run it thru the ballistics calculator, spend some time memorizing your drop at different yardage, and most matches we know that within a yard or two before we shoot, not like hunting Elk where they look close but are 700 yards over on the next hill top. Since I reload 223 ammo it isn't flying at factory speed most of the time and of late the "bullet of choice" is what I can get, so with that in mind the PST may well be more capable of the hit in a given circumstance with a bit of wind thrown in for extra difficulty. Then there is this first and secon focal plane thing, the PST recticle gets larger as you crank it up. I could be wrong but lets say you are on 2x the PST Mrad markings will be accurate but in the Burris the ranging dots will only be accurate at 4x. In most other aspects these two seem equal, I think the advantage on the short shots would go to the Burris but for those shots out beyond 200 yards your chance of a solid hit would be on the PST with non factory ammo. Unless another candidate emerges the PST has the lead. Just have to find a sale. Edited June 12, 2013 by CocoBolo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bagdrag Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 The PST is 1st focal plane now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CocoBolo Posted June 13, 2013 Author Share Posted June 13, 2013 (edited) The PST is 1st focal plane now? Ooops nice catch, I went back and watched the propaganda video again and you are right second focal plane, not all vipers are created equal. maybe it was the blonde distraction.And from the owners manuel: Second Focal Plane Reticle This PST riflescope model uses a second focal plane (SFP) reticle. The advantage of a SFP reticle is that it always maintains the same appearance. Shooters using reticle hashmarks should be aware that the listed subtensions used for estimating range, holdover, and wind drift correction are only accurate at the 4x magnification Its lead is deminished but still has more subtensions for more accurate placement. Edited June 13, 2013 by CocoBolo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskapopo Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 The TAC30 is decent, but the switch is a bit of a pain. The MTAC is definitely a step up and worth stretching the budget. The Optisan 1-4X Mamba looks interesting. Maybe worth trying if you can find a cat-tail/throw lever for it. The Vortex mount also looks great at ~$90, with it's only downfall being that it's made in China (hard to find a good mount under $180 that isn't though). The PST line is not made in China. Its made in the Philippines. Only the cheap Vortex scopes are made in China. The high end Razors are made in Japan. Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heckofagator Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Optics planet is having a 10% sale now. I just picked up the mtac with the pepr mount for around $400. Shipped today! Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CocoBolo Posted June 13, 2013 Author Share Posted June 13, 2013 Actually mine came out to $402.74. Considering it is $200 less than the PST with the QD mount, I caved in and ordered one, happy fathers day to me. If it don't work out I'll keep the mount and sell the scope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1911 S.I.S.sy Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Just spend some time at the range and you will be ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZGunut Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 The Tac-30 with the PEPR mount is just a hair over 300.00 shipped at OpticsPlanet righ now wih he 10% off sale. I don't care who you are, now that's a deal! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a.roberts Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Looking at the candidate recticles, the Burris is very simple, but totally dependent on the ammo being withing the calibration, if not you are back to guessing but you do have a good reference point. The center dot is 2.4" at 100 yards so yes that will pretty well cover the round protion of a pesky popper at that distance. Use iStrelok (iPhone) or JBM's trajectory calculator (online) to figure out what dot matches up with what yardage. Saves time and ammo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskapopo Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Looking at the candidate recticles, the Burris is very simple, but totally dependent on the ammo being withing the calibration, if not you are back to guessing but you do have a good reference point. The center dot is 2.4" at 100 yards so yes that will pretty well cover the round protion of a pesky popper at that distance. Use iStrelok (iPhone) or JBM's trajectory calculator (online) to figure out what dot matches up with what yardage. Saves time and ammo. You can also tweak your zero to make the other marks line up better for any given load. Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bagdrag Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 I don't know if anyone else does this but I zero the top edge of the top dot on the Burris reticle at 200 yards. It lets me use it as an aiming point at distance without obscuring my target. The rest of the holdovers can be calculated with a chronograph and a ballistic calculator. Used in this manner, the top dot can potentially represent 3 holdovers using the top, center, and bottom of the dot. The other holdovers are calculated with the center of their dots in mind since they are not as big as the top dot. At short range (0-75 yards), using the big old top dot or if really close the big circle is good enough for most shots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CocoBolo Posted June 13, 2013 Author Share Posted June 13, 2013 I checked the Burris site for more information and figured the recticle out, looks like for my SMK's going a tick under 2800 at 1/2 high at a 100 yards will get it very close on 2,3,4,500 yd dots. With 83" at 600 I'll just aim at pluto. In pistol when I have to aim at the stem to hit the plate or into space over it or left or right of it, drives me crazy, and slows things way down, the same thing happens with rifle with cross hairs where I have to remember to aim at the dirt in front of the 200 yard flasher, but the sweet spot was 300 actually got to aim right at it and the hits were 1 for one. go figure. I'm hoping this scope works out so I get to aim at the target more often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hpnewby Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 (edited) I don't know if anyone else does this but I zero the top edge of the top dot on the Burris reticle at 200 yards. It lets me use it as an aiming point at distance without obscuring my target. The rest of the holdovers can be calculated with a chronograph and a ballistic calculator. Used in this manner, the top dot can potentially represent 3 holdovers using the top, center, and bottom of the dot. The other holdovers are calculated with the center of their dots in mind since they are not as big as the top dot. At short range (0-75 yards), using the big old top dot or if really close the big circle is good enough for most shots. Seems like that would then cloud up the 300 shot. With my 55gr handloads and a 200 zero. The 300POI is just between the center and 2nd dots. Edited June 13, 2013 by hpnewby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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