Don't read the stage descriptions the match sends you

[ktm300]

Shot a state match this weekend. One stage had a bridge in it that could be set to the left or right depending on where you started. In the stage description that was put on it said:

RO NOTES: Ensure See Saw is in the down position

for the shooter.

So having read the match provided stage layout, I had it in my mind I did not have to think about the bridge. Of course the RO's failed to read that stage description, and the stage brief had nothing about it so the RO's decide it's up to the shooter. I get to the bridge and it is in the wrong position which adds about 5 seconds to a 22 second stage.

Talking to the RO's they said "it wasn't our responsibility, several people have done that today" and by the rules they are correct. Just another thing to add to the list of things to do before a stage. Make sure it is set up the way you want it even if the information sent out from the match says you don't have to.

Edited May 28, 2013 by ktm300

[Tiny Warrior]

Well, I wouldn't say "Don't read the stage descriptions", cause I usually do to get an idea on how the stage will be shot.

But its only an idea, because you can't always tell where you'll see/shoot targets on an online/written picture.

But ya, in the case with the bridge, it is up to the shooter to make sure its the set up to their liking.

[monicataliani]

I was so scared someone was going to step on it while resetting the stage and move it I stood on it until the RO called me over to make ready! LOL!

[ktm300]

I was so scared someone was going to step on it while resetting the stage and move it I stood on it until the RO called me over to make ready! LOL!

Yep and because I had read that it was the RO's responsibility to set it, I just put it out of my mind. Lesson learned.

[BillChunn]

I get to the bridge and it is in the wrong position which adds about 5 seconds to a 22 second stage.

We started on that stage on Saturday morning and that happened to one shooter in our squad. All it required was that he lift his leg a bit higher to step on the teeter-todder bridge. When the CRO asked if there were any questions, the position of the teeter-todder was not discussed. I made sure it was where I wanted it before the LAMR command was given.

The stage descriptions are sent out before the stages are constructed and reviewed by the Range Master. To provide the safest possible shooting venue to all competitors, there will be changes made to those stage designs. Sometimes those changes will be reflected in the walk-thru, other times it may consist of adding a few No Shoots that were not in the original stage drawing.

The lesson learned is that questions can be asked of the C/RO staff. I've found that they will be happy to answer them to the best of their ability. If they don't know the answer, they radio the Range Master and he will make the decision.

Hopefully, you enjoyed the rest of the match.

BC

Edited May 28, 2013 by BillChunn

[ktm300]

I get to the bridge and it is in the wrong position which adds about 5 seconds to a 22 second stage.

All it required was that he lift his leg a bit higher to step on the teeter-todder bridge.

Can I ask what that shooters time on the stage was?

Hopefully, you enjoyed the rest of the match.

It was my last stage and yes I enjoyed the match until then.

[BillChunn]

Can I ask what that shooters time on the stage was?

24.53

He was shooting Production, M classification

BC

[ktm300]

Can I ask what that shooters time on the stage was?

24.53

He was shooting Production, M classification

BC

Looks like it hit him pretty hard. He only had 3 stages > 8th place he was 19th on that one. It was his worst stage finish position.

We lowly B shooters don't recover as well as those M guys.

[Ron Ankeny]

Yep and because I had read that it was the RO's responsibility to set it, I just put it out of my mind.

I am confused. If the written stage briefing required the bridge to be in the down position, how could the RO start you if the stage wasn't set up properly? Wouldn't that be the same as not closing a port, not resetting a swinger, etc.?

[Flexmoney]

Ron,

Notes in the stage diagram sent out before the match vs the actual WSB at the match.

[BillChunn]

Can I ask what that shooters time on the stage was?

24.53

He was shooting Production, M classification

BC

Looks like it hit him pretty hard. He only had 3 stages > 8th place he was 19th on that one. It was his worst stage finish position.

It wasn't the time, it was the points. He only shot 118 of the available 150 points.

[ktm300]

Can I ask what that shooters time on the stage was?

24.53

He was shooting Production, M classification

BC

Looks like it hit him pretty hard. He only had 3 stages > 8th place he was 19th on that one. It was his worst stage finish position.

It wasn't the time, it was the points. He only shot 118 of the available 150 points.

Yes, 78% but his match total was only 85-86%. Possible he got in a hurry after finding the bridge up?

He was at least a couple of seconds off his pace looking at the other stages. The guy in 6th was behind him in most every stage time wise but ahead of him on that stage by a couple of seconds.

Anyway, I know what to do in the future and it was a lesson learned in a way that I won't forget.

[motosapiens]

I only use the pre-match stage diagrams and descriptions to familiarize myself with the general idea of what's going on, like start positions, round count, etc... I spend about 5 mins looking at them. All the actual information is on the real stage itself, and that is where the attention should be focused. In particular, you can use the pre-match diagram to make note of which stages are complicated or have unusual items that you really want to look at and understand.

[Chris Keen]

Shot a state match this weekend. One stage had a bridge in it that could be set to the left or right depending on where you started. In the stage description that was put on it said:

RO NOTES: Ensure See Saw is in the down position

for the shooter.

So having read the match provided stage layout, I had it in my mind I did not have to think about the bridge. Of course the RO's failed to read that stage description, and the stage brief had nothing about it so the RO's decide it's up to the shooter. I get to the bridge and it is in the wrong position which adds about 5 seconds to a 22 second stage.

Talking to the RO's they said "it wasn't our responsibility, several people have done that today" and by the rules they are correct. Just another thing to add to the list of things to do before a stage. Make sure it is set up the way you want it even if the information sent out from the match says you don't have to.

1. Pay attention to the WORDING of the walk-through as it's read to you out loud, and look / listen for gaps in the structure of the start position.

2. Ask Questions.

3. Take as much advantage as you can. This does not mean bend the rules or cheat. But if you're given a little Lee-Way ....use it to your full advantage.

You can always ASK the ROs if you can change something in the stage layout. For example on Stage 2 the RO told us "The gun needs to be lying on the barrel, next to the bucket." So I asked, "On which side of the bucket?" and they told me "Just NEXT to the bucket" so I placed my gun on the LEFT side of the bucket, as opposed to the RIGHT said like so many shooters before me did.

That's just a little observation that paid big dividends to me, the shooter, as I wanted to grab the gun & move to the left, therefore I didn't have to worry about knocking the bucket off the barrel with the gun when I picked it up in a hurry.

So when it comes to teeter-totters that can either be set one way or the other, take as many of the options in a stage as you can, and use them to help you.

[E K]

Shot a state match this weekend. One stage had a bridge in it that could be set to the left or right depending on where you started. In the stage description that was put on it said:

RO NOTES: Ensure See Saw is in the down position

for the shooter.

So having read the match provided stage layout, I had it in my mind I did not have to think about the bridge. Of course the RO's failed to read that stage description, and the stage brief had nothing about it so the RO's decide it's up to the shooter. I get to the bridge and it is in the wrong position which adds about 5 seconds to a 22 second stage.

Talking to the RO's they said "it wasn't our responsibility, several people have done that today" and by the rules they are correct. Just another thing to add to the list of things to do before a stage. Make sure it is set up the way you want it even if the information sent out from the match says you don't have to.

1. Pay attention to the WORDING of the walk-through as it's read to you out loud, and look / listen for gaps in the structure of the start position.

2. Ask Questions.

3. Take as much advantage as you can. This does not mean bend the rules or cheat. But if you're given a little Lee-Way ....use it to your full advantage.

You can always ASK the ROs if you can change something in the stage layout. For example on Stage 2 the RO told us "The gun needs to be lying on the barrel, next to the bucket." So I asked, "On which side of the bucket?" and they told me "Just NEXT to the bucket" so I placed my gun on the LEFT side of the bucket, as opposed to the RIGHT said like so many shooters before me did.

That's just a little observation that paid big dividends to me, the shooter, as I wanted to grab the gun & move to the left, therefore I didn't have to worry about knocking the bucket off the barrel with the gun when I picked it up in a hurry.

So when it comes to teeter-totters that can either be set one way or the other, take as many of the options in a stage as you can, and use them to help you.

As an added note and using stage 2 as another example....The stage briefing read that the bottle & IV bag had to be placed in the bucket (Procedure penalty for each) and the bucket had to be placed on the OR table prior to the final shot (Procedure penalty). The briefing didn't state that the bottle & IV bag had to be in the bucket and on the OR table. Another words if you dropped the bucket or knocked the bag or bottle out of the bucket after it was placed in the bucket it didn't have to be picked up and placed back in the bucket prior to placing the bucket on the OR table. A number of people lost time on the stage as a result.

[ktm300]

Shot a state match this weekend. One stage had a bridge in it that could be set to the left or right depending on where you started. In the stage description that was put on it said:

RO NOTES: Ensure See Saw is in the down position

for the shooter.

So having read the match provided stage layout, I had it in my mind I did not have to think about the bridge. Of course the RO's failed to read that stage description, and the stage brief had nothing about it so the RO's decide it's up to the shooter. I get to the bridge and it is in the wrong position which adds about 5 seconds to a 22 second stage.

Talking to the RO's they said "it wasn't our responsibility, several people have done that today" and by the rules they are correct. Just another thing to add to the list of things to do before a stage. Make sure it is set up the way you want it even if the information sent out from the match says you don't have to.

1. Pay attention to the WORDING of the walk-through as it's read to you out loud, and look / listen for gaps in the structure of the start position.

2. Ask Questions.

3. Take as much advantage as you can. This does not mean bend the rules or cheat. But if you're given a little Lee-Way ....use it to your full advantage.

You can always ASK the ROs if you can change something in the stage layout. For example on Stage 2 the RO told us "The gun needs to be lying on the barrel, next to the bucket." So I asked, "On which side of the bucket?" and they told me "Just NEXT to the bucket" so I placed my gun on the LEFT side of the bucket, as opposed to the RIGHT said like so many shooters before me did.

That's just a little observation that paid big dividends to me, the shooter, as I wanted to grab the gun & move to the left, therefore I didn't have to worry about knocking the bucket off the barrel with the gun when I picked it up in a hurry.

So when it comes to teeter-totters that can either be set one way or the other, take as many of the options in a stage as you can, and use them to help you.

As an added note and using stage 2 as another example....The stage briefing read that the bottle & IV bag had to be placed in the bucket (Procedure penalty for each) and the bucket had to be placed on the OR table prior to the final shot (Procedure penalty). The briefing didn't state that the bottle & IV bag had to be in the bucket and on the OR table. Another words if you dropped the bucket or knocked the bag or bottle out of the bucket after it was placed in the bucket it didn't have to be picked up and placed back in the bucket prior to placing the bucket on the OR table. A number of people lost time on the stage as a result.

Missed that

[Chris Keen]

Yeah lots of us "assumed" the same thing, costing some time on that stage. It was one of those face-palm moments, but I don't know how many people would have thought to ask that question. It seemed pretty straight forward, but it was NOT. Kinda strange.

[felt]

If the stage wasn't reset per the stage description why didn't you ask for a re-shoot? Or if you did why was the request rejected?

[ktm300]

It was not on the stage brief, just the stage description sent out before the match.

[Poppa Bear]

Was it not also an option for the teeter to be down on the left or right side? So depending on how you planned to shoot the stage you had to choose which side was down to start with? Failure to check its position prior to the start signal meant that you had to adapt to the wrong side being up?

[ktm300]

Was it not also an option for the teeter to be down on the left or right side? So depending on how you planned to shoot the stage you had to choose which side was down to start with? Failure to check its position prior to the start signal meant that you had to adapt to the wrong side being up?

If you read the original post that was the result. The issue was that in the information sent from the match to the shooters it said the RO's were responsible for setting the bridge. That changed and I got caught as well as a few other people at the match.

[Poppa Bear]

The only legal way for the RO's to have done that would have been to include the instructions in the stage briefing with the admonition that failure to speak up prior to the start would not be grounds for a reshoot.

[monicataliani]

I was so scared someone was going to step on it while resetting the stage and move it I stood on it until the RO called me over to make ready! LOL!

Yep and because I had read that it was the RO's responsibility to set it, I just put it out of my mind. Lesson learned.

I am sooooooo sorry that happened to you.

I have learned the hard way... never trust the pre-match stage descriptions, they are NEVER the same, I think they are just for you to get an idea of what to look for, and the RO has sooooooo many responsibilities, I always double check everything because they might miss something. Like I always look at no shoots around ports and look at props before I shoot just to make sure the RO didn't miss something. There is a lot to remember and people make mistakes.

[BillChunn]

Being a Range Officer on a crew to handle a stage in a match the size of the Ohio Championship is one of the more thankless jobs in our sport. You normally shoot the day prior to the match and help the Stage Designer / Range Master debug the stages. Sometimes that means you reshoot a stage or two and we all know how reshoots go.... The squads are small and scattered around the range so you don't get the benefit of your buddy telling you about the stage as he just shot it.

Then comes the actual job of running the stage. You are on your stage well before any shooters show up. You will be there long after the last shooter of the day has fired his last round. It means checking that you have all the necessary supplies to paste, paint, and re-paper targets. It can be hot. It can be raining. It can be freezing. It can be all three in the same day! Checking every single target, No Shoot, piece of steel and prop is required before each shooter hears "Make Ready". Have all the targets been pasted? Has the steel been painted? Has the activator for the swinger / drop-out / pop-up been set correctly? Is the area that the shooter is about to traverse safe? Is downrange clear of competitors? It all has to be done efficiently to keep the squad moving and done hundreds of times.

Unless you have worked on a stage as a C/RO then these last two paragraphs don't mean too much. Maybe you just pack up your gun bag and move off to the next stage when your squad is done.

Remember, these volunteers are there so you and I can compete. Without them, there is no match. Taking a couple of minutes to shake their hand before leaving their stage is not asking too much. They all deserve our thanks along with everyone who makes these matches happen.

OK, rant mode off..... (finally)

BC

[August]

One of the first things my teacher told me was to never read the stage descriptions before the match. Her point was that they always change when the R/Os get together before the match and agree about each stage.

I have noticed that, once I get a preconception in my head about how things (might be) are, there is no way to erase that first notion of procedures.

I can push it back, but it is still in my mind and will (has) pop up at the worst possible time during execution.

That initial conception of stage procedure is very powerful for some reason. It has often come back to ruin a performance if it was not correct.

That is one reason why an R/O who reads poorly, or a group of shooters who interrupts the R/O during the reading of a stage can cause me problems.