3 gun rifle purchase suggestions

[Mousekiller]

I've been contemplating trying out 3 gun and after a mind boggling trip through the internet looking at different rifles with some pretty FAR out prices i'm coming here to get some suggestions for an entry level AR or similar rifle that won't break the bank. Say 800-1000..

I've shot a lot of rifle over the years from .22's to 300's but all sporting arms, so i'm really at a loss with what's what on tactical rifles.

Any suggestions on what to look for ? sights? grips/stocks? barrels? etc.. or which whole gun is not a bad choice with chance to upgrade later..

is it better to have a 16" or 20" barrel ?.

And to be honest this will most likely be for "limited" for now.

Thanks folks any suggestions are nice.

Jeff.

[rhino]

I'd get a flat top, probably 20inch gun from any of the reputable manufacturers (Armalite, Bushmaster, Colt, DPMS, Rock River, etc.). If you can get one with a gov't profile barrel instead of an HBAR, I'd do that too. You can use the carry handle sights for limited, and if you choose to go with Open or Tactical in the future, the flat top is there and waiting for you.

Don't forget that DPMS supports our sport, so I would go with them for that reason.

[DWG007]

I would recommend a 18-20" barrel with a good compensator or magnaport. I've been using a 24" bull barrel with magnaporting and find it too long and muzzle heavy for fast target transitions.

Check out Bushmaster, DPMS, and Rock River Arms flat-top uppers.

[Flexmoney]

I know the "which AR/rifle" question has been asked here before. You might find a thread or two on the subject with a good search.

I recall peple recommending Benny Hill for an "all you need" type of AR for 3-gun for around $1000 or less.

[PacMan]

A true M-4 with 14.5" barrel + permanent AK brake and collapsible stock...

Just kidding

Buy a Rock River Arm 20" flat top with the stainless steel 1:8 match barrel, put a JP trigger and either a JPBC or Miculek brake in, and a DPMS or similar detachable rear sight and you're set to go for under $1,000. Throw in a free float tube if you wish to do so now. Or go the Benny Hill route as other have suggested.

[L1011]

Hi Jeff

I shoot Limited Division. I have a 16" Bushmaster and a 20" Armalite. Both guns

have compensators which help alot. I like the 20" barrel for serious competition

because of the accuracy at long range. The Armalite has a National Match trigger

that I also recommend for best results. Two weeks ago at the NYS rifle match, I

had no problem with the 300 yard targets with standard A2 sights.

If you shop around the deals are out there. I built the Armalite from parts for

less than $800. And it shoots GREAT. BTW it also helps to paint your front sight for

easier and faster sight pictures.

Mike

[kellyn]

This is easy and has been discussed many a time here in the forums:

www.triangleshootingsports (Benny Hill) will hook you up or just pony up and get a JP (jprifles.com. They support 3 gunning more than just about anybody.

If you are going to be shooting against me: get a 16 in with a scope mounted on a standard carry handle. And throw in a collapsable stock. And a bipod attached to the barrel. But if you want to win, you definitely do not want a 16 if you are going to be shooting limited (iron sights). The reduced sight radius is a killer. I'd get a 20 in for limited

Of the big manufacturers, DSA and DPMS support 3 gun FAR more than anyone else. So if you just want a stock gun, I'd shop there.

Barrel weight? Personal preference. I like a heavier gun but others like lighter. Check out some other people's rifles before you decide.

[chp5]

I'd get a flat top, probably 20inch gun from any of the reputable manufacturers (Armalite, Bushmaster, Colt, DPMS, Rock River, etc.). If you can get one with a gov't profile barrel instead of an HBAR, I'd do that too. You can use the carry handle sights for limited, and if you choose to go with Open or Tactical in the future, the flat top is there and waiting for you.

Don't forget that DPMS supports our sport, so I would go with them for that reason.

+1

[wgnoyes]

...If you can get one with a gov't profile barrel instead of an HBAR, I'd do that too. ...

Just curious; why no HBAR? Saving weight, or some other reason? Thx!

[rhino]

Yep!

Heavy doesn't help much unless you're a bench rest shooter. The 20" barrels are already heavy enough without makin' 'em HBARs.

And if you ever take a class where you have to stand at low ready for a long time, you'll wish you had the lightest gun you could find!

[Mousekiller]

thanks for the responses gentlemen.. I appreciate them. Like most gun purchases there are zillions of choices out there.. I always try to be a little bit informed before i plunk down money..

I like the looks of the RRA weapons, seem pretty reasonable, took a look at the rest and have seen a few for sale locally.. mostly colt hbar's..

thanks again..

Jeff.

[EricW]

I like my HBar. I wouldn't trade my HBar for one of those twinky pencil-thin barrels - unless you gave me enough cash in the deal to buy another HBar barrel.

Bull barrels are an entirely different story. I absolutely hate the way they make an AR handle - especially barrels over 20".

[Wakal]

I'm quite fond of 18" .750 barrels. My Open AR15 and my Open AR10 are both set up like that.

The Unholy Troika Of Evil (Fred, CD, and I) finished Liota's AR15 a few weeks ago, and we went a little different route for her. 16" .750 stainless barrel, ACE skeleton stock, flat top DPMS with Leupold 1.5-5 on top and a free float tube (all the way over the gas block, of course) with a PDP4 on a rail at 2 o'clock.

I just traded into one of those weird Vulcan plastic uppers and lowers, and will reassemble her gun on that upper and lower in order to save a bit more weight. No idea how it will hold up, so I won't dispose of the aluminum parts just yet

If I was going to build another gun on my usual shoestring budget, I'd pony up the $450 for a Model 1 flat top free float kit with a stainless 20" barrel. Drop in a McCormick trigger group, find a friendly guy with a lathe to trim the barrel back to 18" and thread it 1/2-28. Install a Triangle or Cooley comp and sight to taste.

Alex

[George]

I’m with Kelly, stick with Benny Hill http://www.triangleshootingsports.com/ or JP Rifles http://www.jprifles.com/

No one else supports the sport like they do and nobody builds better 3gun competition AR’s than they do.

Personally, I would forget the stock AR route and just start with a flat top, 20” bbl AR with free float handguard and a limited/tactical legal comp.

No matter what it costs, you won’t be sorry if your gonna’ shoot 3 gun with it.

--

Regards,

[L1011]

Real men/women/shooters can handle the weight of an HBAR. You'll wish you had one at 200 yards and beyond.

And, there is nothing wrong with buying a stock AR. There is a special satisfaction you get when you kick someone's

butt with a rifle that cost half of what theirs did.

[scooterj]

check out the Clark Gator. Jim Jr builds one hell of a rifle!

[chp5]

Real men/women/shooters can handle the weight of an HBAR. You'll wish you had one at 200 yards and beyond.

If that were true, I guess many top competitors are not real men/shooters, inluding Taran Butler. Weight is a personal preference. Try to shoot different AR's before you buy.

For me, lighter rifles transition faster on close-in stages and the 20" gas system coupled with a good comp is so soft and flat there's no need for any extra weight.

[rhino]

check out the Clark Gator. Jim Jr builds one hell of a rifle!

Indeed! If I ever get an AR specifically for games, I'm probaby going to get a Gator.

[glockster96]

Real men/women/shooters can handle the weight of an HBAR. You'll wish you had one at 200 yards and beyond.

And, there is nothing wrong with buying a stock AR. There is a special satisfaction you get when you kick someone's

butt with a rifle that cost half of what theirs did.

Mayhaps I'm just simple, but what advantage does an HBAR have at 200 yards and beyond over a govt. profile barrel? Just curious, as my previous AR had a govt. bushy barrel with JP limited comp, and it shot very well at distance.

[michael_aos]

When I started looking for something for 3-gun, I was told:

Major brand

20" barrel

nothing heavier than an HBAR

Brake preferred

I went to my local firearms supermarket and gave them my specs.

There were ~12 AR's in rack, but as I went through my list we eliminated the 16" barrels, then the heavy barrels, then the ones without brakes.

And then I was left with an Armalite M15A4.

So that's what I bought!

:-)

Mike

[h4444]

I like my AR180b, cheaper than most all AR15's, is pretty much a flattop, reliable,,,,full sized, light as most carbines, simple in design, uses an AK style gas system, shoots clean......

Uses AR15 mags, ar15 fire control components.....

Sure there aren't the aftermarket do-dads, but we're talking entry level right?

Sure the scope mount is proprietary, but it works OK and you can use the sights under the scope....

I like mine more and more every time I shoot it.

For what I want it is flexible enough and does everything I want.

H4444

[Religious Shooter]

Mayhaps I'm just simple, but what advantage does an HBAR have at 200 yards and beyond over a govt. profile barrel? Just curious, as my previous AR had a govt. bushy barrel with JP limited comp, and it shot very well at distance.

As other people have already mentioned it's a matter of personal taste.

My match upper has a lightened 16" with a 20" gas system. My practice upper has a 20" HBAR.

When shooting prone I don't notice a difference between the two. But shooting at 200 yard steel in an offhand position or shooting with the handguard on a chair (to simulate a barrier) the 20" is just steadier for me. I guess the weight makes it harder to move .

If 3-gun was 80% 200+ yards targets I'd run the 20" HBAR. But it isn't. At the 3Gun Nationals in Reno it seemed like the rifle shots were:

- 3% 200+ yards (4 shots)

- 6% 100+ yards (8 shots including the 4 above)

- 94% <100 yards

It runs along those lines at the majority of the matches that I have attended.

I haven't compared the two uppers in a hose fest (which would defeat the purpose of having a two upper system) but I think the handiness (due to the weight) of the 16" makes it a superior for those <100 yard targets. IMHO at 100-250 it's a wash. Past 250 yards I think the weight helps.

Soooo... I play the odds and recommend and use a gun with a lighter profile barrel.

[glockster96]

Copy that. I was just curious if there was a large advantage to the HBAR at distance, as was alluded in the post. Thanks!

[L1011]

You're all correct. it IS a matter of personal preference. And, I prefer to demonstrate my skill with a stock AR (20" HBAR)

in Limited Class. And, the last match has proven to me that the HBAR is the best choice for achieving that fore mentioned special

satisfaction.

I'm a C class shooter. In the last major match I attended. I finished 17th out of 55 competitiors on the, 75-300yds, long range stage (combined

divisions and classes). And 22nd in the short range clearing house (point blank) stage. I believe the HBAR performed very well in both extremes.

So if your on a tight budget (as are most family shooters), one must consider what is the best bang for the "limited" bucks.

Good luck in your decision process.

[Mousekiller]

geez, thanks guys..there are a lot of options when it comes to the AR market that's for sure.. choices out the waaazzoo..

i've also read that it's cheaper to buy an "upper" and "lower" seperatly and put them toghter? any advantages to that? or big disadvantages?.

this would definetly fit into the "entry" level and I don't think to many ranges can handle 200+ rifle and still have room to move etc.. least not many that i've shot at recently..

again, thanks for all the advice.. it's very interesting with all the differing opinions.

Jeff.