9 mm "Major" Brass

[Gandof]

I load range brass. My club conducts both USPSA and IDPA matches. Lately I've been finding a lot of 9mm cases that are bulged in the web area. Neither my Dillon or Lee dies will remove all of this bulge. I've tried using my tightest chambered 9mm barrel for a gauge. I'm finding a lot of loaded rds that will not bottom out in the chamber. If I cycle these rounds through the gun, when the slide goes into battery the gun is locked up tight and requires the use of a hard surface to press the muzzle end of the slide against to eject. I have a Lee "U" die on order that will hopefully correct this, but in the meantime I'm having to cycle test all my loaded rounds to insure my match ammo runs.

I load in volume, so inspecting each individual case before loading is more than I care to do. I'm spending enough time sorting the .380s out of my 9mm cases. I should mention, I'm using a LFCD as my station 5 die. It cures a lot of problems, but can't touch this one. I can't adjust the die to "Break Over" on a progressive, but have considered running at least my match ammo through this die on a single stage to see if I can size the cases further down. Anyone have any tips or tricks to cure this problem that they would like to share?

RR

[CB45]

Its probably not "major" brass. More likely just a pistol without a fully supported chamber.

My 9major brass doesn't have any deformation.

I've seen 9mm brass deform when the chamber had been eroded a lot. The brass fire-formed to the chamber and caused FTE's. That was weird.

Edited May 21, 2013 by CB45

[BillChunn]

Glocks and other clones of that design do not have fully supported chambers and will produce brass with the notorious "Glock bulge".

Case-Pro 100 is a little machine that will take the bulge out of brass. How it works is it rolls a piece of brass between two plates, one being flat and the other having an incremental "ridge" that goes from the bottom of the case to the top. It rolls the bulge "up" the case to the casemouth. It is designed to use the Dillon case feeder and there are specific dies for each caliber. It's not cheap at $645.75 plus shipping but it has solved my bulged brass problems for over 20 years. (Yes, I have one of the "old" purple machines... actually number 177).

Even with the Case-Pro I still use an EGW case gauge to double check that everything went through the loading process successfully. It's where I check that the primer was seated correctly and there is nothing stuck to the outside of the case which would eventually end up on the inside of the chamber. This $20 investment has found numerous rounds that would have completely locked the gun up if they were not found before LAMR.

BC

Edited May 21, 2013 by BillChunn

[wes777]

You can also file the factory dies down to the carbide sizing ring to resize to the web. Your new u die will do the same thing though.

[Klemmer]

I am also loading range picked 9mm brass.

Please employ the U die and report back how it all turns out.

[Jman]

Glocks and other clones of that design do not have fully supported chambers and will produce brass with the notorious "Glock bulge".

Just for clarity. Both the 9 and .40 Glock chambers are indeed fully supported. Up until ~2002 their chambers were "looser" than needed

especially for 1911 and clone shooters who grabbed up your brass before you did. Todays Glock chambers are not as open as they used be

which makes chambering lead bullet rounds a pain.

So, to conclude. Glock does not own the franchise on weird spec ejected brass. And hasn't for a very long time.

[Bob DuBois]

Think the U die will help also. I load 9mm minor and 40 S@W using the U die. Spend time inspecting 9mm brass. Get three factory plastic boxes. Using a bigger box or tray pour brass in to the factory tray the ones that have solid square sides work better. Most will fall base down. Look and be sure nothing is in the case, chigger bites, splits or it's not berdan primed. Place another plastic tray over the top and flip it over. Now you can look at the bases. I'll chunk any that are Military, that are swaged, small circle around the primer. Also throw away any cases that show excessive pressure from an open gun easy to spot when you look at the side of the plastic tray. Any that have a odd head stamp or that are the wrong caliper. You don't need to fill the trays and if one falls in backwards just inspect it when flipping.

Water test for volume, Military cases held from 46 to 48 cc's of water. Standard cases held 64 to 68 cc's of water. Might be an issue also for an Open 9mm major shooter.

Always lube cases, makes the whole process easier on the brass, dies, press and the operator.

[BillChunn]

Glocks and other clones of that design do not have fully supported chambers and will produce brass with the notorious "Glock bulge".

Just for clarity. Both the 9 and .40 Glock chambers are indeed fully supported. Up until ~2002 their chambers were "looser" than needed

especially for 1911 and clone shooters who grabbed up your brass before you did. Todays Glock chambers are not as open as they used be

which makes chambering lead bullet rounds a pain.

So, to conclude. Glock does not own the franchise on weird spec ejected brass. And hasn't for a very long time.

There are still a lot of "original" Glock barrels out there. The shallow feed ramp leaves the back of the case unsupported. The Gen 3 and Gen 4 guns addressed the problem as did the aftermarket barrels.

When looking at the OEM barrels in the photo below, you can see the side wall of the case which is what causes the brass to bulge in that area.

BC

Edited May 21, 2013 by BillChunn

[Jaxshooter]

I use a Lee U die on my 9 mm brass and have no problem with bulged brass. I agre the brass is from and unsupported chamber. My 9 mm major loads do not deform the brass.

[mlmiller1]

I can't adjust the die to "Break Over" on a progressive,

Why not? My lee sizing dies with the nut placed on the bottom of the tool head on my 650s, are low enough so the press "cams" over a little when the handle is pulled fully. With the 9mm brass being tapered somewhat, it is very important to get full sizing.

[Gandof]

I can't adjust the die to "Break Over" on a progressive,

Why not? My lee sizing dies with the nut placed on the bottom of the tool head on my 650s, are low enough so the press "cams" over a little when the handle is pulled fully. With the 9mm brass being tapered somewhat, it is very important to get full sizing.

I'm loading on a 650. I've used both the Dillon and the Lee sizing dies. No problem cranking the die down to contact the shellplate using the Dillon lock ring on the Lee die. On a single stage, for maximum effect, I'd bring the die down to contact the shell holder, lower the ram and give the die another quarter turn or so. I'm not comfortable putting that kind of load on the outside of the unsupported shellplate. Maybe I'm over cautious.

Gandof

[mlmiller1]

I've heard of folks having trouble but I lower mine a little more after contacting the shell plate. Not a lot, but enough to make a difference it seems. Probably a quarter turn. Enough that it cams over but not low enough to prevent full arm movement of the press. YMMV, I guess.

[Gandof]

May not hurt a thing on the Dillon. On my red press it would tilt the shellplate just enough to screw up the priming operation on station 2. If it works for you, I wouldn't change it. Wish I had access to a mill, I'd modify my sizing die. As it is, guess I'll wait and see what the "U" die does for me.

Thanks!

[Porsche320]

I'm very new to loading 9 major, and I've been very picky with brass. After ultrasonic cleaning, I check for carbon or corrosion inside, if I see black or green, it fails. Then I check for case bulging; I won't use if I can see any. Last, I check for extractor nicks. If I see more than 1, I won't use. I'm loading to avg PF 169.

The problem is that less than 1/20 passes all 3 checks, so it takes an impractical amount of time to sort enough for even infrequent matches.

I guess the question becomes: can I relax the standards?

I'm not too interested in empirically finding the limit when I can learn from others who have already gone through the exercise.

I expect tumbling and a U die will "fix" most cases, but it seems that is just hiding the symptoms of corrosion and cold work, rather than actually correcting the problem.

Any insight or opinion is appreciated.

[Gandof]

P320

I sort range brass brass by caliber, (using the case sorter) soak dirty range brass in my home brew cleaning solution, dry, and throw it in the tumbler. I give it a quick visual check (By the handfull) as I throw it in the case feeder (Looking for badly damaged or cracks) and load it. I chamber check all my ammo, and visually check primers and for case cracks or damage. I usually load in lots of 1k, and chamber check it a couple hundred rounds at a time as I use it. If it will go bang, and hold the A zone at 30 yds I'm happy.

[Gandof]

I should add: I don't shoot major with 9mm. I reserve the .40 for that. My reloading process is the same for all my pistol calibers tho.

RR

[sroe3]

Except for the very worst cases, I find other 9mm guns I own will chamber and cycle my bulged rounds just fine. Recheck the rounds that don't pass the tight chamber with another. If they work, label them for that gun. My FN will run 99% of the rounds that won't fit the XD, Walther, or Witness.

[lugnut]

I'm with Jman on this. I've shot Glocks and Glock'd brass for years without this issue. I think it a combination of things... load AND chamber. You guys can keep posting how tight the chambers are of the KKM and Lone Wolf barrels but what do you think makes Glocks so damn reliable? They work all the time partially because they feed almost anything well. Even the newer Glock chambers will feel stuff that is slightly "oversized". I'll take that advantage all day long. I have seen some hot commercial ammo out of Sigs that had more bulge than I've seen out of any Glocks fwiw.

Now to the OPer. I lube all my brass (it does help) and a Lee FC die. The rest of the dies are RCBS. I currently use a CZ and I can't recall the last time I had a feed issue. I use range brass all the time. I watch our for Amerc and steel S&B brass and anything that looks nasty.

Anytime I've seen "gun issues" on the range I've often wondered how many times it's actually ammo related. I'd guess close to 90% of the time.

[Porsche320]

My 130PF minor loads are getting only a quick inspection, generally at pick-up. They've fed fine through an M&P and PT1911 (so far). I'm concerned about major loads in a trubor. Thanks.

[Croomrider]

I'm very new to loading 9 major, and I've been very picky with brass. After ultrasonic cleaning, I check for carbon or corrosion inside, if I see black or green, it fails. Then I check for case bulging; I won't use if I can see any. Last, I check for extractor nicks. If I see more than 1, I won't use. I'm loading to avg PF 169.

The problem is that less than 1/20 passes all 3 checks, so it takes an impractical amount of time to sort enough for even infrequent matches.

I guess the question becomes: can I relax the standards?

I think you are being way too picky. A quick look over for cracks or major bulges would be all I would do. Skip the extractor nicks, and any corrosion serious enough to matter will be obvious. Many people will use 9 major brass for several firings if their chamber is not loose, so the key is to find damaged cases, not be overly concerned about being fired more than once.

Mike

Edited May 24, 2013 by Croomrider

[Porsche320]

I'm very new to loading 9 major, and I've been very picky with brass. After ultrasonic cleaning, I check for carbon or corrosion inside, if I see black or green, it fails. Then I check for case bulging; I won't use if I can see any. Last, I check for extractor nicks. If I see more than 1, I won't use. I'm loading to avg PF 169.

The problem is that less than 1/20 passes all 3 checks, so it takes an impractical amount of time to sort enough for even infrequent matches.

I guess the question becomes: can I relax the standards?

I think you are being way too picky. A quick look over for cracks or major bulges would be all I would do. Skip the extractor nicks, and any corrosion serious enough to matter will be obvious. Many people will use 9 major brass for several firings if their chamber is not loose, so the key is to find damaged cases, not be overly concerned about being fired more than once.

Mike

That's what I hoped and expected, but I wanted to hear it from someone who has run a thousand or so rounds like that, and continues to do so.

Thanks!

[CocoBolo]

I've probably shot in excess of 60K 9 major rounds, I pickup brass at the range I buy once fired brass etc. I tried shooting it multiple times, I have a case pro buldge is not a problem, the problem comes from the primer pockets getting wamped out. This was an easy discovery I look into my lymann 2500 turbo and see a bunch of primers and think how did they get in there, well as I start handling the brass I find a bunch with no primers. That was the end of the multiple loading, I do pick some up for shooting minor from time to time if the pile is low, they are ok for a round of minor.

The big thing you should be checking for is steel cases disguised as brass, this ruined a shot at a Plaque at Gator for me a few years back. I now check all brass with a magnet and it sucks them right out of the pile or the bullet tray boxes. Just to be sure I check them before and after loading.

I roll my cases, but I'm not and idiot, I also drop check every round, it would suprise you what you find, like a case that split during loading, or for some reason the bullet was set crooked and now it wedges in the drop check. When I say drop I mean it goes plunk and all the way down then you turn it over and it falls out. If the rim sticks up it is bad, if you have to force it in it is bad. I keep a practice only box, and a some day to be pulled bucket.

Rolling and loading on the finest equipment with diligent care you may get about 1 to 2% that are rejects. These wind up in the practice bucket then one day you practice with a 100 or even 200 but that number 201 jams the gun up. There is nothing more fustrating than having a great run in a match and then have a jam because you became too careless in drop checking.

There is a myth that the case pro resizes the primer pocket to original dimensions, a machinst friend of mine made some go no go guages for the primer pocket and we test the case pro with his 38S brass and we found that no it don't size it back, it does a little but no where near original spec. He became concerned when he started getting primers in his plastic bag that he put his loaded ammo in. He then took a bunch of loaded rounds in a bag shook them a bit and whaaaaaala a few lose primers and of course a bunch of powder.

Ok thats my 02.