Pepper Poppers

[Phil Dunlop]

Looking through IPSC's ICS Classifiers, I notice lots of stages include full sized pepper poppers.

Over here its getting hard to find clubs with full sized poppers, heaps have USPs and Minis, but very few big ones.

Quite honestly I don't miss them either, the mini's are far more challenging and so more interesting IMO.

Am I alone and if not should the ICS stages be changed to reflect that?

Thanks, P.D.

[Garfield]

Every match I shoot includes full size pp's, so imo they're not obsolete.

[shred]

Big poppers are like close, open targets-- people try and shoot them too fast and end up missing. Those rule.

Poppers don't have to be close either. A full popper at 20 yards is a tougher shot than a 1/2 size popper at 10 yards. They may look the same size, but not only do you have to make a better shot, but you also have to move your eyes more and call the shot better or you waste more time before the sound of the hit (or miss) registers in your brain.

[blackdragon]

They sure are a lot easier to hit on the move! I like them.

Ivan

[Wakal]

I like 'em because they are heavier and can activate more wacky stuff, but I'm probably biased.

Alex

[blackdragon]

Good point Alex!

Ivan

[LPatterson]

Our last local match had 8 on 1 stage, 4 set to fall normal & 4 set as forward falling. Since this is a mixed family type forum I can not adequately express my feelings about using regular poppers to fall forward.

Another stage used 3 US poppers at about 20 yards with 6 paper targets partially covered with no-shoots. The COF had 3 shooting positions (ports) chest high, waist high & knee high.

Poppers are alive and well in the Treasure State as we will probably see at the next area match at this club.

[EricW]

Big poppers are cool in that you simply can't wait and watch to see if you hit them. You HAVE to shoot, call your shot and keep shooting. I think they really separate the shot callers from the hosers.

[banjobart]

I think that you see fewer pepper poppers because the sport is aging as a whole and a higher percentage of match volunteers and workers have back injuries. I sure as hell do not haul pepper poppers anymore and use US poppers.

[redmercury2]

OUR CLUB rarely has a match which does not use full-sized poppers,definitely not yet an anachronism.--

[Wakal]

Another local club, populated by some downright twisted folks, have installed large coil springs (about 8" tall and 2" in diameter) on the bases of their full size poppers. They fall right over when you shoot them.

And then spring back up.

And fall down.

And then spring back up, but not as high as the first time (Newton's Laws being what they are).

Continue until really annoyed (or amused, in the case of the RO and onlookers).

Last month's match had you shooting through a 12" diameter pipe about three feet long at three of those "spring" poppers lined up side by side...with two US poppers behind each spring-loaded popper.

I learned that if you hit the big popper a few times in quick succession and drive it back down into the spring, it will bounce up REALLY fast.

Alex

[.40AET]

Last year we shot a stage called "Boing!". When you shot the magic pepper popper, it activated 4 different swingers. It was awesome! Everything comes to life and starts swinging all over the place. When you saw it for the first time, you just couldn't stop laughing. Anything other than a full sized popper would not have the weight to pull all of the cables necessary to start the swingers.

Since this is a mixed family type forum I can not adequately express my feelings about using regular poppers to fall forward.

Don't even get me started.

[Phil Dunlop]

Thanks for the replies, looks like I'll have to pull finger and make some, though it will only be to accomodate the classifiers. I've never had trouble getting Mini Poppers to activate, and shot calling on forward falling mini poppers is at least as critical.

P.D.

[blackdragon]

Bouncing full size popper huh? Hmmm

Ivan

[Vince Pinto]

Our last local match had 8 on 1 stage, 4 set to fall normal & 4 set as forward falling.

We're supposed to be running shooting matches, not memory contests, and I just don't understand course designers who want to mess with competitor's minds.

I prefer forward falling poppers because, in my experience, they are far more reliable, but I can certainly live with rearward falling poppers. However mixing both on the same stage (or even in the same match), is downright nasty.

The only thing more nasty (and very unsafe), is having mutliple doors in a stage, with some being set to push, with others being set to pull.

[kevin c]

Mebbe I'm just a rube, but I've never seen a foward falling popper in a match. How do they work? Are they spring mounted, or something?

[JerryDGeek]

In the Great NorthWet, we tend to rely on Pepper Poppers ... especially in the Windy Wet Winter.

Here are some advantages of the Pepper Popper over the cardboard target:

* they don't blow down as readily when a gust of wind breezes through

* they're easier to adjust if they DO blow down ... just adjust the settings so they stay up.

* You don't have to worry about the pasters falling off between shooters, when the targets are wet.

* In fact, you don't have to tape them at all. Just reset them. You can even paint them when they're wet, although the paint is not going to last very long.

Here are some advantages of the Pepper Popper over the US popper:

* Everybody sees the large hit-area, and thinks "Hey, this is easy to hit" ... but it's not

* they are so pondorous, you need to call your shot before you move on. US Poppers tend to react more quicly, so they favor the person who stands around with his sights on the target waiting for the target to move before they go to the next target. As has been mentioned previously, it emphasizes the difference between those who call their shots, and those who wait for some reaction.

I very much like the forward-falling poppers. They're obnoxious, but much more challenging. I think that is the epitome of shooting at steel targets.

The down-side is that they MUST be staked to the ground, or else they will walk around every time they fall until they aren't facing toward the 'standard shooting place" (I just made that up, I hope everyone understands it. ) Essentially, it's not enough to witness the target, you really should nail it to the ground so it won't bounce around every time the plate falls.

One of the most rewarding events in IPSC competition is engaging a line of Pepper Poppers and having the last one start to go down before the first popper goes <CLANG!> as it hits the ground. As you leave the shooting position, there's this vestigial image in your mind's eye, a waterfall of steel, that tells you that your engagement of that array has been absolutely perfect. You go to bed that night, and one of the last things you semi-consciously review in your head is the sight of a perfect engagement.

Man, it's a beautiful thing. And while the main reason to shoot IPSC may be to experience the adrenellin (sp?) rush several times in one day, the next best thing is replaying the things you do RIGHT.

I love this sport!

[Dead Buff]

We use more PP's than USP's or MPP's....

0.02

[Skywalker]

One of the most rewarding events in IPSC competition is engaging a line of Pepper Poppers and having the last one start to go down before the first popper goes <CLANG!> as it hits the ground.

You need to see Saul Kirsch's book front 'n back cover.

[Jim Norman]

Our last local match had 8 on 1 stage, 4 set to fall normal & 4 set as forward falling.

We're supposed to be running shooting matches, not memory contests, and I just don't understand course designers who want to mess with competitor's minds.

I prefer forward falling poppers because, in my experience, they are far more reliable, but I can certainly live with rearward falling poppers. However mixing both on the same stage (or even in the same match), is downright nasty.

The only thing more nasty (and very unsafe), is having mutliple doors in a stage, with some being set to push, with others being set to pull.

Multiple doors should all work in the same direction. Not that they do in real life, but this is a game.

Poppers on the otherhand are targets and if you hit them they either fall or they don't. We have used Forward Falling (FF) in front of Rearward Falling (RF) on more than one occcastion, It gives you a few more feet in a tight bay and it does add to the challenge.

That having been said, you can use a RF popper just turned backwards, although ithe two really are not the same. A true FF Popper has either a spring on the adjusting bolt, OR a latch that holds the popper in the up position. HItting the spring loaded popper causes the spring to compress and launches the popper forward, the hook type just yeilds enough to release the hook.

One thihg about a FF if it is designed as such is they almost always fall, A RF popper turned around can actually fall when hit with a 9mm and stand when hit with a 38super. Multiple hits on FF are also a problem, tehy just stand there, you can't drive them down any faster than gravity is taking them. A RF popper can be double tapped to get it ut of the way faster.

My preference is for RF poppers for this reason.

Jim

[Vince Pinto]

Mebbe I'm just a rube, but I've never seen a foward falling popper in a match. How do they work? Are they spring mounted, or something?

The ones we use in Hong Kong just have an "L" latch on the rear of the popper, which hooks up to another "L" latch on the popper frame. When you shoot the popper, it rocks rearwards about 1cm to a stopper (which prevents the popper moving rearwards beyond the vertical), then the popper falls forward. You can see a diagram here.

The other thing is that the FFPs we use are not hinged at the base - they just stand freely in a "V" channel so, when shot, they fall forwards and out of the base, and this is the key to their reliability.

The final advantage to FFPs is that shots do not ricochet off the surface over the rear berm - they strike the ground in front.

[billwright]

Hi, Im a bit behind but agree with Vince on the multi door thing, if there are doors they should all open the same way.

Im the sort of bloke who pushes the pull door and pulls the push door and breaks all my fingernails on the one marked Lift

Bill

[Jeeper]

We're supposed to be running shooting matches, not memory contests, and I just don't understand course designers who want to mess with competitor's minds.

I dont mind when they are intermixed because it goes to one of the essences of our sport which is being able to call your shots. If you called your shots then you dont worry about it. Plus it is really funny seeing an open gun being shot fast and keeping a forward falling one standing upright.

[mcoliver]

Mebbe I'm just a rube, but I've never seen a foward falling popper in a match. How do they work? Are they spring mounted, or something?

I can vaguley remember a thread where shootergrrl posted about getting hit in the head with this kind of popper. In fact, I think it even carried a pic, too. Maybe a search will yield it.

And about, doors. Push or pull I can remember...most of the time. But having a real operating door knob? C'mon!...

[froglegs]

I like the big poppers I think they should be here forever they can be used in many situations. Why get rid of CHOICES? They provide options and that's a good thing!