openclassterror Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 I am experimenting with light loads myself right now, but more in the area of playing with the recoil spring length (by this I mean the one around the magazine tube, NOT the one inside the bolt). I will post up what I find out over the weekend. My shotgun runs the 1200fps slugs fine, though the Fiocchi 1300s don't want to be reliable. Not sure why, as I have 3 different 1oz 1200 slug brands that all run 100%. All 1500-1600fps slugs run 100%. 7/8oz Aeros vary from one lot to the next, some 100% some not at all. Lightening the bolt on an inertia gun makes it cycle faster, but does not help it cycle lighter loads. Actually quite the opposite. Benelli work for light loads usually involves adding tungsten or something heavy to the bolt, which helps it resist the initial movement and compress the rebound spring in the bolt more before cycling. I think the Stoegers should be easier to play with because the recoil spring is more accessible, and weight could easily be added to the carrier extension inside the hand guard. I am working towards full reliability with 1oz 1145fps birdshot loads. Most importantly, these shotguns really can't be counted on to run the lighter stuff until broken in. I have been having good luck using CLP for lube, thicker oils seem to slow it down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Tischauser Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 Correct me if I'm wrong here but I was thinking the issues we have with lighter loads as compared to an M2 stems from either having all the extra friction of the big recoil spring and action bar loop dragging up and down the outside of the mag tube and/or the recoil spring being too stiff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan N Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 (edited) Thanks for the clarification Tom. My logic was backwards about lightening the bolt. I look forward hearing about the spring mod. I didi all but detail strip the bolt last night. Lubed it up well and shot it today with similar results. It ran great for the most part but I still suspect the 1200fps slugs are a little light. I may consider lightening the bolts once it's something I can do myself. Tom, can you give me a little advice? Photos?Wouldn't lightening the bolt make it cycle light loads worse? How looseare you holding the gun and have you added a softer recoil pad? Both seem to help my gun cycle. If I barely hold the gun it will cycle the 1150 fps Fiocchi slugs, but I don't think I'd use them in a match.I beleive im holding the gun pretty firm against my shoulder. I have also added 13oz in tbe buttstock. Recoil pad is stock but rounded off on the corners. Edited March 30, 2014 by Ryan N Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Tischauser Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 Thanks for the clarification Tom. My logic was backwards about lightening the bolt. I look forward hearing about the spring mod. I didi all but detail strip the bolt last night. Lubed it up well and shot it today with similar results. It ran great for the most part but I still suspect the 1200fps slugs are a little light. I may consider lightening the bolts once it's something I can do myself. Tom, can you give me a little advice? Photos?Wouldn't lightening the bolt make it cycle light loads worse? How looseare you holding the gun and have you added a softer recoil pad? Both seem to help my gun cycle. If I barely hold the gun it will cycle the 1150 fps Fiocchi slugs, but I don't think I'd use them in a match.I beleive im holding the gun pretty firm against my shoulder. I have also added 13oz in tbe buttstock. Recoil pad is stock but rounded off on the corners. Extras weight in inertia guns equals less ability for the gun to cycle lighter loads. That weight in your stock may be partially to blame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
openclassterror Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 AH- that could be adding to the difficulties. A lot of people have discovered with the Benelli inertia guns that adding weight compromises reliability. Have you tested it with the weight removed from the stock? Inertia guns need to recoil a certain amount to transfer sufficient energy to the bolt. If we add a ton of weight or excessive barrel porting we reduce the amount of recoil available to compress the rebound spring. I would think that cutting the recoil spring would be almost necessary with all the excess weight. Keep in mind we are already adding a half pound of ammo over the factory design, and your full-up gun with stock weight is well beyond a pound over weight. I have noticed that most malfunctions with light loads in my shotgun occur while the magazine is nearly full. Worth looking into anyhow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Tischauser Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 Softer buttpad might help too. It lets the gun move rearward more which is what the inertia system needs to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan N Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 Ahah, I believe you guys have figured it out. Thanks guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cvandiver Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 I am not sure I agree with the softer buttpad and the gun moving rearward. This seems opposite to what would be required. Think of why a "limp wrist" will cause a FTE or other malfunction with a pistol, it seems to me the tighter the gun to the shoulder the better to allow for bolt cycle movement. Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikerburgess Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 I am not sure I agree with the softer buttpad and the gun moving rearward. This seems opposite to what would be required. Think of why a "limp wrist" will cause a FTE or other malfunction with a pistol, it seems to me the tighter the gun to the shoulder the better to allow for bolt cycle movement. That can be true for a gas operated gun or a A5 browning type action, but the way the Benelli, Stoger and Franchi actions work the opposite is true. Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Tischauser Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 (edited) I am not sure I agree with the softer buttpad and the gun moving rearward. This seems opposite to what would be required. Think of why a "limp wrist" will cause a FTE or other malfunction with a pistol, it seems to me the tighter the gun to the shoulder the better to allow for bolt cycle movement. Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk Go watch the inertia system video and learn how the system works. If you stop a inertia gun from moving rearward by shooting it with the stock up against a tree without a buttpad on the gun it won't move rearward enough to compress the inertia spring. Once the inertia spring is compressed it forces the bolt carrier rearward.Here is an even better explanation. http://www.stoegerindustries.com/inertia-driven-system Edited March 30, 2014 by Jesse Tischauser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
openclassterror Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 (edited) The Inertia principal functions by the bolt carrier staying still (objects at rest stay at rest...) while the rest of the gun recoils rearwards, compressing the spring between the bolt carrier and the bolt head. Once the rearward movement of the gun stops the spring unloads, throwing the carrier rearwards and unlocking the bolt head via the cam pin. The more freely the gun is allowed to recoil, the more energy is imparted into the spring. Anything that impedes rearward movement of the shotgun takes energy away from that transfer. The spring size is carefully balanced against the weight of the gun and a "normal" hold from an average sized shooter. It has some leeway, but any significant shifts in the components (gun weight, recoil mitigating devices, shot payload weight or velocity, etc) can take it out of the parameters it was designed to function in. Adding recoil in the form of 3" magnums or heavy slugs simply speeds up the cycle, but reducing recoil can make it short-stroke. Jesse, you beat me again! We are on the same wavelength but my wordy responses take too long to type Edited March 30, 2014 by openclassterror Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oskino Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 interesting.... Jesse, what is the best way for me to apply to Graphite Powder to the inside of the magtube, because I look like I just got done cleaning a chimney. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenDragon64 Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 To make the stiff recoil pad softer, could you drill out material by drilling the sides in a waffle pattern after freezing the pad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oskino Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 To make the stiff recoil pad softer, could you drill out material by drilling the sides in a waffle pattern after freezing the pad? I was thinking the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Tischauser Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 To make the stiff recoil pad softer, could you drill out material by drilling the sides in a waffle pattern after freezing the pad? Napa auto parts sells bottles of dry graphite powder. Cut a very small hole in the tube and squirt it a bunch in your OEM tube then in the mag tube and assemble it. The squirt some more down the hole in the end of the tube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToysRUs Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 So I have only shot Federal 1200fps bulk pack and my good Win 1145's in my gun. I don't think I've had a single FTE. I did tear it down, clean and smooth things then relube with good stuff before I ever shot it. (On a side note: I have the same thing with my Akdal open shotgun happening. Always has run 1145's and everyone else messes with theirs to get it to run light loads.) I believe I am one with mechanical devices...... I finally got my hands on some 1100fps remington shells. We will see what happens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
openclassterror Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 OK guys, this is a simple one. I removed the plastic spacer that goes between the recoil spring and the front of the receiver. Then proceeded to run 25 straight of the cheap Estate 1oz #8s from the same lot that ran maybe 50% reliability before. Bolt cycles a little bit slower on the close, but still runs about as fast as I can pull the trigger. I am thinking if I cut the plastic thingy down to about 1/8" thick it will still do its job (centering up the hand guard) but allow running the light stuff. I will buy as much wimpy ammo as I can find this week, and also try the Fiocchi slugs again that wouldn't run. If that is the solution to running light loads, it sure is an easy fix! Anybody have any thoughts on drawbacks to this mod? Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToysRUs Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 OK guys, this is a simple one. I removed the plastic spacer that goes between the recoil spring and the front of the receiver. Then proceeded to run 25 straight of the cheap Estate 1oz #8s from the same lot that ran maybe 50% reliability before. Bolt cycles a little bit slower on the close, but still runs about as fast as I can pull the trigger. I am thinking if I cut the plastic thingy down to about 1/8" thick it will still do its job (centering up the hand guard) but allow running the light stuff. I will buy as much wimpy ammo as I can find this week, and also try the Fiocchi slugs again that wouldn't run. If that is the solution to running light loads, it sure is an easy fix! Anybody have any thoughts on drawbacks to this mod? Tom I like that Idea. Easily changeable if you buy a replacement spacer. (probably $4) Better than someone spending a bunch on finding a a recoil spring or custom winding a recoil spring with sayyyyy 10% less tension.... if it would even work. Drawbacks are: It doesn't work and you buy a $4 spacer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Tischauser Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 What's the spacer do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
openclassterror Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 It supports the spring and centers the hand guard around it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iswope Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 So in trying to install the Taran Tactical lifter in my M3k I screwed up pretty badly. In pounding out the staked pin holding the breach bolt latch onto the lifter one of the ears broke off. Anyone know where to purchase just this part? This blows. Is this the same as on a Benelli? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan N Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 I'm loving this idea Tom. Please keep us posted. The weight in my buttstock will come out today. I shot ~120 rounds or 3dram and 1200fps slugs flawlessly through this gun prior to adding the 13oz buttstock weight. When I added the weight I enjoyed the reduced recoil, but I didn't realize that the weight would cause an issue. At the TFD match, I had 2-3 FTE out of 143 rounds of 3dram Fed shells. I also shot 37 Rem 1200fps slugs with about 1 FTE/stage(8 stages with slugs). I am also now interested in a softer recoil pad. Sounds like the Kickezz is a popular choice. Which one do you guys recommend: All purpose, Special Slotted, Sporting Clays, "Trap? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan N Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Sorry to see that Ian. I would call Stoeger at 800-264-4962. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iowashooter Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Limbsaver makes a precision fit pad for the stoeger m2000 (model # 10008). Would the dimensions be the same on the stock between the two models? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBJones Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Limbsaver makes a precision fit pad for the stoeger m2000 (model # 10008). Would the dimensions be the same on the stock between the two models? Unfortunately no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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