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Why 1911s for ESP...


revchuck

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Folks - This is NOT meant to start a flame war.

Most discussions about which ESP gun to use are usually about which flavor of non-.45 ACP 1911 to use. With the exception of 9x19 and .38 Super Springfield Loaded guns - which exist, I've actually seen one ;) - most of these are double stacks of one persuasion or another, going for something over a grand, with mags that seem to work most of the time on good days.

Why go through the heartburn of getting one of these to run instead of something that's already reliable and as accurate (mechanically, anyway), not to mention way cheaper? (Examples would be the Browning HP and the CZ-75/Tanfoglio.) Is it because of familiarity with the 1911, lack of familiarity with other types of pistols, blind prejudice? Enquiring minds want to know.

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1. It's easier to shoot just one platform

2. It's easier to shoot a 1911 trigger

3. Some folks just like it (you couldn't trade me a case of BHP's for a well-built STI/SV)

BTW, the reliability problems of doublestack mags are exaggerated by selection bias. I can't remember the last time my SV bobbled, so I don't post about it, whereas the people with difficulties are likely to ask for help.

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4. I can use the same holster and mag pouches that I use with my .45 in CDP and USPSA Limited10 and Limited

5. Fits my hand better than any other choice

6. Felt recoil is significantly lower than with any other 9mm I've shot

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From what I've seen, STIs run just fine. Lots of crossover USPSA shooters have no urge to switch to an inferior gun with as crappy trigger just to shoot IDPA.

Personally I shoot a pre-series 70 Colt .38 Super which is an easy switch from the Kimber I use for USPSA L-10. I start the match with a factory Colt mag so I can load 9 rounds in my Wilson mags. 9+1 is perfect for IDPA.

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I shoot a Para P16 in both USPSA Limited and IDPA ESP. Only difference is the guide rod, tungsten for Limited, steel for ESP. Like what everyone has said, one gun, one trigger.

Mine will run almost forever. I shoot lead bullets and the only time the gun stops working is when I don't clean the gun after a lot of shooting. There's enough wax build up on the chamber that I have to scrape out with a knife. Once the chamber is free of wax, it's good to go.

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Chuck, then there are those of the "great unwashed masses" that shoot Glocks. A gun choice is a personal thing. It is all about what you shoot best match to match. I like the Glock 35 for IPSC and IDPA. The trigger is a non event now. I can get a Glock trigger down to 16 oz. if I need to. I happen to like a trigger set at 2 lbs. Glocks are just as accurate as a 1911. It's pretty hard to miss that big mag opening Glock's have. I tried to shoot a BHP in IDPA at first, but found the combination of a somewhat square magwell and mags made reloads a hit or miss thing for me.

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Tokarev - I like your tag line. :)

The trigger pull on a CZ is the same for all shots in ESP. :P It's only longer in SSP. My 75B is a 1.5" gun at 25 yards, with the factory barrel. It's my ESP gun.

This is the basis for my question - my 1911s just aren't that much better in the trigger department, and they're not as accurate even with match barrels. Of course, they're .45s...

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one of the largest rationale in shooting a 1911 single stack in ESP is you only load 10 rounds, that means you get to reload between targets in a lot of cases. which can save 10th's of seconds

the division was actually designed for a place to have "single actions in 9mm-40 caliber shooting Minor power factor ammunition" to compete.

i really can't think of too many single action's more popular than a 1911

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Folks - This is NOT meant to start a flame war.

Actually, that hardly ever happens here - and when it does, the mods are all over it. It rarely happens twice. This is a NICE place to visit, and we work hard to keep it that way.

(Examples would be the Browning HP and the CZ-75/Tanfoglio.)

A big part of it is long term durability. The Hi-Power has a reputation for slide cracking; it can't stand up to anywhere near the round count a 1911 can. According to Bruce Gray, who's been firing "combat pistol" matches since 1972, in the early days this was very much a Browning Hi-Power (more rounds, less recoil, Minor caliber) versus 1911 (less rounds, more recoil, Major caliber) sport. One reason the 1911 swiftly became the gun of choice was that you suddenly had guys firing, no BS, a hundred thousand rounds a year, and the 1911 was the only gun that could stand up to it.

Experiences with CZ-pattern guns loaded to Major resulted in many cracked slide stops.

On the 1911 an exquisite trigger pull is easily accomplished. Pistolsmiths competent to do really first rate trigger work on HPs or CZs are hen's teeth.

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Why go through the heartburn of getting one of these to run instead of something that's already reliable and as accurate (mechanically, anyway), not to mention way cheaper?

Is it because of familiarity with the 1911, lack of familiarity with other types of pistols, blind prejudice? Enquiring minds want to know.

It's think it's mainly because everyone is different. I shoot a 1911 because I want to shot it, not because it's what I have to shoot. I've shoot Glocks, 1911's, CZ's, Tanfoglio's etc...and have found the 1911 to be right for ME.

What I've found is that the gun has very little to do with how well you do, it's the guy behind the trigger.

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