revchuck Posted October 9, 2004 Share Posted October 9, 2004 Folks - This is NOT meant to start a flame war. Most discussions about which ESP gun to use are usually about which flavor of non-.45 ACP 1911 to use. With the exception of 9x19 and .38 Super Springfield Loaded guns - which exist, I've actually seen one - most of these are double stacks of one persuasion or another, going for something over a grand, with mags that seem to work most of the time on good days. Why go through the heartburn of getting one of these to run instead of something that's already reliable and as accurate (mechanically, anyway), not to mention way cheaper? (Examples would be the Browning HP and the CZ-75/Tanfoglio.) Is it because of familiarity with the 1911, lack of familiarity with other types of pistols, blind prejudice? Enquiring minds want to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoNsTeR Posted October 9, 2004 Share Posted October 9, 2004 1. It's easier to shoot just one platform 2. It's easier to shoot a 1911 trigger 3. Some folks just like it (you couldn't trade me a case of BHP's for a well-built STI/SV) BTW, the reliability problems of doublestack mags are exaggerated by selection bias. I can't remember the last time my SV bobbled, so I don't post about it, whereas the people with difficulties are likely to ask for help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted October 9, 2004 Share Posted October 9, 2004 4. I can use the same holster and mag pouches that I use with my .45 in CDP and USPSA Limited10 and Limited 5. Fits my hand better than any other choice 6. Felt recoil is significantly lower than with any other 9mm I've shot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFD Posted October 9, 2004 Share Posted October 9, 2004 From what I've seen, STIs run just fine. Lots of crossover USPSA shooters have no urge to switch to an inferior gun with as crappy trigger just to shoot IDPA. Personally I shoot a pre-series 70 Colt .38 Super which is an easy switch from the Kimber I use for USPSA L-10. I start the match with a factory Colt mag so I can load 9 rounds in my Wilson mags. 9+1 is perfect for IDPA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted October 9, 2004 Share Posted October 9, 2004 I shoot a Para P16 in both USPSA Limited and IDPA ESP. Only difference is the guide rod, tungsten for Limited, steel for ESP. Like what everyone has said, one gun, one trigger. Mine will run almost forever. I shoot lead bullets and the only time the gun stops working is when I don't clean the gun after a lot of shooting. There's enough wax build up on the chamber that I have to scrape out with a knife. Once the chamber is free of wax, it's good to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe D Posted October 10, 2004 Share Posted October 10, 2004 Chuck, then there are those of the "great unwashed masses" that shoot Glocks. A gun choice is a personal thing. It is all about what you shoot best match to match. I like the Glock 35 for IPSC and IDPA. The trigger is a non event now. I can get a Glock trigger down to 16 oz. if I need to. I happen to like a trigger set at 2 lbs. Glocks are just as accurate as a 1911. It's pretty hard to miss that big mag opening Glock's have. I tried to shoot a BHP in IDPA at first, but found the combination of a somewhat square magwell and mags made reloads a hit or miss thing for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokarev Posted October 10, 2004 Share Posted October 10, 2004 CZ-75's are good reliable pistols but they have a LONG trigger pull on the first shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revchuck Posted October 10, 2004 Author Share Posted October 10, 2004 Tokarev - I like your tag line. The trigger pull on a CZ is the same for all shots in ESP. It's only longer in SSP. My 75B is a 1.5" gun at 25 yards, with the factory barrel. It's my ESP gun. This is the basis for my question - my 1911s just aren't that much better in the trigger department, and they're not as accurate even with match barrels. Of course, they're .45s... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokarev Posted October 10, 2004 Share Posted October 10, 2004 Oops! Forgot about SSP! You can tell I only shoot single actions, can't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Moneypenny Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 one of the largest rationale in shooting a 1911 single stack in ESP is you only load 10 rounds, that means you get to reload between targets in a lot of cases. which can save 10th's of seconds the division was actually designed for a place to have "single actions in 9mm-40 caliber shooting Minor power factor ammunition" to compete. i really can't think of too many single action's more popular than a 1911 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted October 16, 2004 Share Posted October 16, 2004 Folks - This is NOT meant to start a flame war. Actually, that hardly ever happens here - and when it does, the mods are all over it. It rarely happens twice. This is a NICE place to visit, and we work hard to keep it that way. (Examples would be the Browning HP and the CZ-75/Tanfoglio.) A big part of it is long term durability. The Hi-Power has a reputation for slide cracking; it can't stand up to anywhere near the round count a 1911 can. According to Bruce Gray, who's been firing "combat pistol" matches since 1972, in the early days this was very much a Browning Hi-Power (more rounds, less recoil, Minor caliber) versus 1911 (less rounds, more recoil, Major caliber) sport. One reason the 1911 swiftly became the gun of choice was that you suddenly had guys firing, no BS, a hundred thousand rounds a year, and the 1911 was the only gun that could stand up to it. Experiences with CZ-pattern guns loaded to Major resulted in many cracked slide stops. On the 1911 an exquisite trigger pull is easily accomplished. Pistolsmiths competent to do really first rate trigger work on HPs or CZs are hen's teeth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokarev Posted October 16, 2004 Share Posted October 16, 2004 Another plus in the 1911's favore is the selection of aftermarket parts and magazines available. A shooter can easily have his 1911 configured to adjust for hand size, etc. HP's and CZ's are hard to find parts for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
froglegs Posted October 16, 2004 Share Posted October 16, 2004 How 'bout it is simply a CHOICE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted October 16, 2004 Share Posted October 16, 2004 And don't forget ... it's the right thing to do. Wilford Brimley would say so! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precision40 Posted October 16, 2004 Share Posted October 16, 2004 Why go through the heartburn of getting one of these to run instead of something that's already reliable and as accurate (mechanically, anyway), not to mention way cheaper? Is it because of familiarity with the 1911, lack of familiarity with other types of pistols, blind prejudice? Enquiring minds want to know. It's think it's mainly because everyone is different. I shoot a 1911 because I want to shot it, not because it's what I have to shoot. I've shoot Glocks, 1911's, CZ's, Tanfoglio's etc...and have found the 1911 to be right for ME. What I've found is that the gun has very little to do with how well you do, it's the guy behind the trigger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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