Check Yer Striker Block for Correct Function

[StealthyBlagga]

... In addition, using slow motion photography and a cut way Apex has seen that when the weapon is fired the striker comes back under recoil and the pressure for the cartridge, the USB is back down and it hammers it self back and forth a few times in between each shot which will cause wear.

Interesting - is that video posted somewhere online?

[mahamoti]

Just wanted to add, I had this exact problem. M&P 9L, Apex Comp AEK. Striker would push right past the USB. Replaced the striker (I had the old revision in the 9L, so I wanted to put the new revision in it anyway). After 300rds at one match, the new striker was also peened. Not bad enough to push past, but definite deformation where it was hitting. I've since replaced the USB with a the latest revision, which was definitely different. I'll be keeping a close eye on it.

[MilkMyDuds]

I am having the same issue with my brand new MP9 Pro installed with APEX competition AEK today.

Here is the video of how the APEX striker block does not block the striker, unless I push the striker slightly up:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gKP_DKnwX8

Keep in mind this is a brand new MP9 Pro I bought last week.

I also have an extra stock striker assembly from Brownell. I swapped that on, same problem. So it is definitely not the striker block's issue.

The interesting thing is, my old MP9 Pro with APEX competition AEK does not have this problem.

My guess is that this time I received a "defective" USB in the APEX kit.

Any other explanations?

Is this gun safe to run?

Thanks.

[mcracco]

Not the same issue. Unless you incorrectly are using an FSS striker block which I questioned in your other thread.

[MilkMyDuds]

Not the same issue. Unless you incorrectly are using an FSS striker block which I questioned in your other thread.

I bought the regular "APEX competition AEK". Should it contain the "FSS" or non "FSS" USB? What is FSS?

It may be possible APEX sent me the wrong USB included in their CAEK kit?

Edited December 21, 2014 by MilkMyDuds

[Bkreutz]

Not the same issue. Unless you incorrectly are using an FSS striker block which I questioned in your other thread.

I bought the regular "APEX competition AEK". Should it contain the "FSS" or non "FSS" USB? What is FSS?

It may be possible APEX sent me the wrong USB included in their CAEK kit?

This is why I dislike the overuse of acronyms, too many chances for mistakes. To answer your question, the Apex Action Enhancement Kit does not include a Forward Set Sear so the Competition Action Enhancement Kit would not include a non Forward Set Sear Ultimate Striker Block.. Mistakes in packing the items in the kit could happen but I couldn't tell by the information given in this thread.

Edited December 21, 2014 by Bkreutz

[alexmg]

I am having the same issue with my brand new MP9 Pro installed with APEX competition AEK today.

Here is the video of how the APEX striker block does not block the striker, unless I push the striker slightly up:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gKP_DKnwX8

Keep in mind this is a brand new MP9 Pro I bought last week.

I also have an extra stock striker assembly from Brownell. I swapped that on, same problem. So it is definitely not the striker block's issue.

The interesting thing is, my old MP9 Pro with APEX competition AEK does not have this problem.

My guess is that this time I received a "defective" USB in the APEX kit.

Any other explanations?

Is this gun safe to run?

Thanks.

I have similar situation, except my pistol is 100% stock, have not even fired a single shot through it, was going to shoot it for the first time tomorrow, just out of curiosity I pushed striker forward and it moves freely, I can even see firing pin sticking out of breach face when I do that, however if I lightly press striker back, I can hear audible click, striker block pops up a bit and now everything blocked properly. More so, I just took the pistol out of the box, and without disassembling I just locked slide back and I can press striker forward and firing pin sticking out of the hole, pull back a little, click and everything back in place. Unbelievable, brand new pistol and two problems out of the box already, have not fired a single shot yet and more likely on Monday s&w will want me to send it back to them under warranty.

Somehow all 4 of my US manufactured pistols had(have) problems right out of the box, when both of my European pistols had zero problems.

[truborshooter]

Doesn't the sear hold the striker back when in battery?

Doesn't the striker reset the striker blocker when in battery?

Playing with a loose slide or an open gun doesn't tell much

Edited December 22, 2014 by truborshooter

[MilkMyDuds]

Doesn't the sear hold the striker back when in battery?

Doesn't the striker reset the striker blocker when in battery?

Playing with a loose slide or an open gun doesn't tell much

I am not a gunsmith, but Andy from APEX said we should perform this safety check with a loose slide and open gun. I don't know if he is right or wrong. Maybe you are knowledgeable enough to make a call if the gun is safe to fire while failing this safety check?

Start from 4'35'':

Edited December 22, 2014 by MilkMyDuds

[thermobollocks]

It's safe to fire, just don't drop it

And yeah, that's how you test the striker block if you're in the armorer's class. Playing with a loose slide or an open gun can tell you quite a few things depending on what you're looking for.

[truborshooter]

I see your point, in the video and in my own 5" CORE with Apex FSS kit installed, but with factory striker spring.

And since I used the Apex youtube instructions to install I'm sure I performed the striker test.

My Apex striker block is more domed with a small flat on top, maybe less than 1/2 the diameter of the striker block.

The factory striker block I removed is much flatter on top almost 3/4 to 7/8 diameter of the striker block. like the one in mmd's video

Since the striker block resets by the block spring only after the sticker returns back to position.

What acts as the 'firing pin' return spring? since the only spring in the striker assembly provides the forward motion?

If the striker doesn't go back, then the block doesn't reset and the system fails the test.

The only other spring in the striker/block system is the tiny block spring itself.

mmd's video shows, at the end, if he pushes back the striker the block resets and all is well.

And it did't appear that the striker require any effort to push it back.

My striker has almost no play in it and returns cleanly after depressing the block and pushing the striker forward.

I wonder what can cause the striker return failure it those other guns?

Anyhow thanks for setting me straight

[MilkMyDuds]

I just put all stock parts back into the gun, and tried the safety check.

I am surprised that the striker blocker does not block the striker either, everything stock, 0 round fired. So it is not the APEX parts after all.

Called S&W and the guy was obviously reluctant to do anything about it. Did anyone say S&W have "good customer service"? LOL. I pressed him to say "it is safe to fire as it is". He finally cracked and said he will send me a shipping label so that their technicians can test the gun. Threatened that I won't get the gun back for 20-30 days if I want to send it in, which I don't give a damn because I have another MP9 Pro already. I don't care how they test the gun, the plunger just does not block the striker assembly, which can freely move up and down without the plunger being pressed. This level of QC from a major firearm manufacture is getting ridiculous.

Very disappointed. Maybe I should have gone with imported guns like Glocks...

[thermobollocks]

I just put all stock parts back into the gun, and tried the safety check.

I am surprised that the striker blocker does not block the striker either, everything stock, 0 round fired. So it is not the APEX parts after all.

Called S&W and the guy was obviously reluctant to do anything about it. Did anyone say S&W have "good customer service"? LOL. I pressed him to say "it is safe to fire as it is". He finally cracked and said he will send me a shipping label so that their technicians can test the gun. Threatened that I won't get the gun back for 20-30 days if I want to send it in, which I don't give a damn because I have another MP9 Pro already. I don't care how they test the gun, the plunger just does not block the striker assembly, which can freely move up and down without the plunger being pressed. This level of QC from a major firearm manufacture is getting ridiculous.

Very disappointed. Maybe I should have gone with imported guns like Glocks...

Sounds like the striker channel might've been oversized. I'm surprised Smith would waffle at all with the drop safety not working, unless you started your story with "hey I was trying to put in a bunch of Apex parts and..."

Since the striker block resets by the block spring only after the sticker returns back to position.

What acts as the 'firing pin' return spring? since the only spring in the striker assembly provides the forward motion?

If the striker doesn't go back, then the block doesn't reset and the system fails the test.

How's this for an obtuse and counterintuitive answer: the recoil spring.

When you fire, the striker spring drives the striker forward, and the striker remains forward as the slide moves to the rear. The disconnector, I'm reasonably sure, moves the sear from the flat position (fire) to the slightly angled position (set), then catches the lug on the striker. The striker remains stationary while the slide closes. The slide closing cocks the striker. This is part of why the 5" guns with factory striker springs sometimes won't go back into battery + may have lockup issues with <= 13 pound recoil springs.

[truborshooter]

I don't understand 'recoil spring'?

With the slide off the gun in hand, I press the blocker and the striker can be moved forward.

Release the striker and it springs back with or without the blocker engaged or released.

No recoil spring involved, no frame involved.

The rest of your explanation is basically what I said in my comment above #33

[Tarkeg]

@ thermo and trubor..

The spring that pushes the striker back is in the striker assembly. If you remove the striker assembly, you can clearly see the striker spring. Then you push the plastic assembly forward and you can see the other spring. The coils are much further apart (And therefore much weaker) than the striker spring.

[CHA-LEE]

I love it when people throw "Drop In" parts into their Gun with no consideration to how those parts change the timing of things, then they get pissed when it does not work properly or parts wear out prematurely.

These things are not like Lego toys. You can't simply swap stock parts with aftermarket parts and expect them to function properly with everything else. Any time you change the timing of the firing components you must verify that the timing works with all of the other components. If you are not up to the task of figuring that out, then take it to a gunsmith who is capable of figuring it out for you.

[MilkMyDuds]

I love it when people throw "Drop In" parts into their Gun with no consideration to how those parts change the timing of things, then they get pissed when it does not work properly or parts wear out prematurely.

These things are not like Lego toys. You can't simply swap stock parts with aftermarket parts and expect them to function properly with everything else. Any time you change the timing of the firing components you must verify that the timing works with all of the other components. If you are not up to the task of figuring that out, then take it to a gunsmith who is capable of figuring it out for you.

If you read the whole thread, you will see the issue is that the factory MP9s fail the striker block test. The original speculation of APEX parts not working has been proved to be false. In fact, the only MP9s that works flawlessly, out of the 3 I have, is the one with APEX CAEK installed (by myself).

[CHA-LEE]

I love it when people throw "Drop In" parts into their Gun with no consideration to how those parts change the timing of things, then they get pissed when it does not work properly or parts wear out prematurely.

These things are not like Lego toys. You can't simply swap stock parts with aftermarket parts and expect them to function properly with everything else. Any time you change the timing of the firing components you must verify that the timing works with all of the other components. If you are not up to the task of figuring that out, then take it to a gunsmith who is capable of figuring it out for you.

If you read the whole thread, you will see the issue is that the factory MP9s fail the striker block test. The original speculation of APEX parts not working has been proved to be false. In fact, the only MP9s that works flawlessly, out of the 3 I have, is the one with APEX CAEK installed (by myself).

The striker block test needs to be done when the striker is coming forward from a "Cocked" position. I have seen several off the shelf M&P's exhibit the same happening of needing to pull the striker back slightly before the striker block can drop down in front of the striker block leg. I would consider this as "Normal" with the latest run of M&P's out there.

Your testing of this with the slide off is invalid because the striker would never be in a "Forward" position like that AND have a round in the chamber. The slide needs to rack back far enough to at least catch the striker onto the sear, which is far enough to bring the striker back so it clears the striker block. Basically, by the time the slide can come back far enough to feed or manually insert a round in the chamber, the striker has been cocked back far enough to clear the striker block, thus the striker block does work as designed when the gun is in a loaded condition.

If the striker block was not functioning properly in a loaded chamber condition you can bet your ass that S&W would IMMEDIATELY issue a recall on the M&P platform. There isn't a recall for this issue, because it is NOT an issue.

[rack&roll]

I love it when people throw "Drop In" parts into their Gun with no consideration to how those parts change the timing of things, then they get pissed when it does not work properly or parts wear out prematurely.

These things are not like Lego toys. You can't simply swap stock parts with aftermarket parts and expect them to function properly with everything else. Any time you change the timing of the firing components you must verify that the timing works with all of the other components. If you are not up to the task of figuring that out, then take it to a gunsmith who is capable of figuring it out for you.

If you read the whole thread, you will see the issue is that the factory MP9s fail the striker block test. The original speculation of APEX parts not working has been proved to be false. In fact, the only MP9s that works flawlessly, out of the 3 I have, is the one with APEX CAEK installed (by myself).

The striker block test needs to be done when the striker is coming forward from a "Cocked" position. I have seen several off the shelf M&P's exhibit the same happening of needing to pull the striker back slightly before the striker block can drop down in front of the striker block leg. I would consider this as "Normal" with the latest run of M&P's out there.

Your testing of this with the slide off is invalid because the striker would never be in a "Forward" position like that AND have a round in the chamber. The slide needs to rack back far enough to at least catch the striker onto the sear, which is far enough to bring the striker back so it clears the striker block. Basically, by the time the slide can come back far enough to feed or manually insert a round in the chamber, the striker has been cocked back far enough to clear the striker block, thus the striker block does work as designed when the gun is in a loaded condition.

If the striker block was not functioning properly in a loaded chamber condition you can bet your ass that S&W would IMMEDIATELY issue a recall on the M&P platform. There isn't a recall for this issue, because it is NOT an issue.

Well said.

[MilkMyDuds]

I love it when people throw "Drop In" parts into their Gun with no consideration to how those parts change the timing of things, then they get pissed when it does not work properly or parts wear out prematurely.

These things are not like Lego toys. You can't simply swap stock parts with aftermarket parts and expect them to function properly with everything else. Any time you change the timing of the firing components you must verify that the timing works with all of the other components. If you are not up to the task of figuring that out, then take it to a gunsmith who is capable of figuring it out for you.

If you read the whole thread, you will see the issue is that the factory MP9s fail the striker block test. The original speculation of APEX parts not working has been proved to be false. In fact, the only MP9s that works flawlessly, out of the 3 I have, is the one with APEX CAEK installed (by myself).

The striker block test needs to be done when the striker is coming forward from a "Cocked" position. I have seen several off the shelf M&P's exhibit the same happening of needing to pull the striker back slightly before the striker block can drop down in front of the striker block leg. I would consider this as "Normal" with the latest run of M&P's out there.

Your testing of this with the slide off is invalid because the striker would never be in a "Forward" position like that AND have a round in the chamber. The slide needs to rack back far enough to at least catch the striker onto the sear, which is far enough to bring the striker back so it clears the striker block. Basically, by the time the slide can come back far enough to feed or manually insert a round in the chamber, the striker has been cocked back far enough to clear the striker block, thus the striker block does work as designed when the gun is in a loaded condition.

If the striker block was not functioning properly in a loaded chamber condition you can bet your ass that S&W would IMMEDIATELY issue a recall on the M&P platform. There isn't a recall for this issue, because it is NOT an issue.

I am more confused than ever now.... so the guy from APEX is asking the folks to perform an "invalid" striker block safety test? He is certainly just testing with an open slide.

I am really just a newbie. However, with some logic I can see when there is a round in the chamber, gun not cocked, a sudden external force (such as a fall to hard surface) could indeed induce the firing pin to hit the primer, because the striker block does not block the striker when bun is not in battery. Am I wrong in this theory?

[CHA-LEE]

I love it when people throw "Drop In" parts into their Gun with no consideration to how those parts change the timing of things, then they get pissed when it does not work properly or parts wear out prematurely.

These things are not like Lego toys. You can't simply swap stock parts with aftermarket parts and expect them to function properly with everything else. Any time you change the timing of the firing components you must verify that the timing works with all of the other components. If you are not up to the task of figuring that out, then take it to a gunsmith who is capable of figuring it out for you.

If you read the whole thread, you will see the issue is that the factory MP9s fail the striker block test. The original speculation of APEX parts not working has been proved to be false. In fact, the only MP9s that works flawlessly, out of the 3 I have, is the one with APEX CAEK installed (by myself).

The striker block test needs to be done when the striker is coming forward from a "Cocked" position. I have seen several off the shelf M&P's exhibit the same happening of needing to pull the striker back slightly before the striker block can drop down in front of the striker block leg. I would consider this as "Normal" with the latest run of M&P's out there.

Your testing of this with the slide off is invalid because the striker would never be in a "Forward" position like that AND have a round in the chamber. The slide needs to rack back far enough to at least catch the striker onto the sear, which is far enough to bring the striker back so it clears the striker block. Basically, by the time the slide can come back far enough to feed or manually insert a round in the chamber, the striker has been cocked back far enough to clear the striker block, thus the striker block does work as designed when the gun is in a loaded condition.

If the striker block was not functioning properly in a loaded chamber condition you can bet your ass that S&W would IMMEDIATELY issue a recall on the M&P platform. There isn't a recall for this issue, because it is NOT an issue.

I am more confused than ever now.... so the guy from APEX is asking the folks to perform an "invalid" striker block safety test? He is certainly just testing with an open slide.

I am really just a newbie. However, with some logic I can see when there is a round in the chamber, gun not cocked, a sudden external force (such as a fall to hard surface) could indeed induce the firing pin to hit the primer, because the striker block does not block the striker when bun is not in battery. Am I wrong in this theory?

Yes, you are wrong. I tried to explain it but you are not getting it so I give up on trying to spoon feed you the answer.

[MilkMyDuds]

The striker block test needs to be done when the striker is coming forward from a "Cocked" position. I have seen several off the shelf M&P's exhibit the same happening of needing to pull the striker back slightly before the striker block can drop down in front of the striker block leg. I would consider this as "Normal" with the latest run of M&P's out there.

Yes, you are wrong. I tried to explain it but you are not getting it so I give up on trying to spoon feed you the answer.

I am sure there are several MPs that do this. However, I am confused why not all MPs do this? Out of my 3 MPs, 2 of them do this, and one does not.

I called S&W the other day. The guy was not as confident as you are saying it is "normal". He actually asked me to send it back so that they can do more testing.

I was actually hoping the guys could just tell me 100% sure that it is normal. Then I don't have to go through all these troubles. The fact that S&W guy won't say it is "normal" on the phone makes a newbie like me concerned.

[CHA-LEE]

If how the striker block and striker interact with one another seems like voo doo magic that only a mystical gun savant in the S&W factory can provide an answer to, then there isn't much me or anyone else on this forum is going to be able to do for you.

Anyone with a decent mechanical understanding of things can use logic while observing the mechanical operation of the M&P trigger mechanism and its associated components. If you can't figure out the basic interaction between the Striker Block and Striker then there is no way that you are going to be able to assess, troubleshoot, and adjust the trigger components to solve a timing issue. Once again, if you don't understand what is going on then leave it up to a qualified gunsmith to figure out.

I don't want to sound like a dick, but this same old story of people "Dropping In" after market parts and then their gun doesn't work properly gets old. Its a broken record that keeps playing the same tune over and over and over and over.......

If you are not the kind of guy that is willing to roll up your sleeves and do your own major repairs on your vehicle when it breaks down, then tinkering on firearms is probably not going to suit you well either.

Edited December 23, 2014 by CHA-LEE

[MilkMyDuds]

If how the striker block and striker interact with one another seems like voo doo magic that only a mystical gun savant in the S&W factory can provide an answer to, then there isn't much me or anyone else on this forum is going to be able to do for you.

Anyone with a decent mechanical understanding of things can use logic while observing the mechanical operation of the M&P trigger mechanism and its associated components. If you can't figure out the basic interaction between the Striker Block and Striker then there is no way that you are going to be able to assess, troubleshoot, and adjust the trigger components to solve a timing issue. Once again, if you don't understand what is going on then leave it up to a qualified gunsmith to figure out.

I don't want to sound like a dick, but this same old story of people "Dropping In" after market parts and then their gun doesn't work properly gets old. Its a broken record that keeps playing the same tune over and over and over and over.......

If you are not the kind of guy that is willing to roll up your sleeves and do your own major repairs on your vehicle when it breaks down, then tinkering on firearms is probably not going to suit you well either.

Your comments are not valid in this case. Because it is not drop in parts not working, it is stock factory gun failing some tests.

You can argue those tests are not valid tests, but it is debatable, right? So it is basically you against Andy from APEX and the guy on the phone from S&W customer service. Those two seem to agree the stock factory gun I have is failing the test, while you think the test itself is invalid.

[CHA-LEE]

I had a long reply, but I decided to delete it. You can lead the horse to the water but you can't force them to drink.

Edited December 24, 2014 by CHA-LEE