Flexmoney Posted October 1, 2004 Share Posted October 1, 2004 Vince, I still owe Troy a stage for my CRO class. I'll put in some lazy classics for ya. Now...the rest of you sonsabitchs keep talking about color and I'll find out the names of those guys on Queer Eye and that will become you new forum nickname. I get bombed by the girlfriend way too much with color swatches to listen to my manly shooting buddies talk about shades of brown! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mactiger Posted October 1, 2004 Share Posted October 1, 2004 I hear ya! Troy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeInNePa Posted October 1, 2004 Share Posted October 1, 2004 I've heard all the bitchin', pissing and moaning and a lot of it is from people who have never been there. I'll be the first to say that Quincy and the surrounding area sucks when you have down time. This years format you had a bunch. You can't really go do a whole lot if you want to concentrate on the match anyway. I spent most of the down time gaming stages and watching others shoot. PASA has a great facility which allows USPSA to put on a hell of a match. Not many ranges have the facilities to be used for this size match. This year they let you park up the hill which saved a lot of humping gear up that damn hill. You want to go shoot a match PASA is good. You want to go on vacation then go on vacation. I just don't see being able to really do both without the shooting performance suffering. The weather can suck in any part of the country so get over it already. I shot the A8 in a constant downpour and mud, the MASC was hot and humid. Until some genius can come up with an AC system for an outdoor range then I guess we all get to shoot in some less than perfect weather. I prefer to spend my down time drinking, which of course is why I suck when I go to a big match! George, Ask Chriss sometime what effect closing down a Hooters has on big match performance..... I don't need to ask Chriss about it. Who do you think was sitting across from him at the Hooter's? I don't know why I do that to myself, I need to stop that. (Hanging out with Chriss, not the drinking part) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted October 1, 2004 Share Posted October 1, 2004 Between shooting a match, gaming the next days stages, taking photos, and interviewing shooters, I don't have time or energy to go to Disneyland. Quincy may be boring, but Hannibal has a bunch of tourist-y things related to Mark Twain. You could spend a day there before getting bored.As for the white walls, I object due to photographic reasons. Too much light! If I expose to keep the wall from "blowing out" the shooters face disappears into shadow. If I expose for the face or shirt, the wall ceases to exist, becoming blown-out highlights. Big deal, you say? Well, the sponsor's banner also enters the problem: expose for wall, the banner becomes black blob. Expose for banner, and wall gets blown out. How about a nice, restful beige? Now, that's one of the best arguments/requests for different color walls that I've seen. Any particular shade of beige? Troy Troy, From aphotographer's perspective, 18% Grey would be perfect --- but probably not very appealing. Which shade of beige? Brian Enos.com T-shirt tan of course.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriss Grube Posted October 1, 2004 Share Posted October 1, 2004 Yep, George you and that damn nextel getting me in trouble all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Sweeney Posted October 1, 2004 Share Posted October 1, 2004 Don't go making fun of me just because I remember the foo-foo color names of paper I sold. I didn't name the stuff, I just unloaded, inventoried, sold and shipped it. Driving the company into the ground and selling it at a massive loss was a decision made far above my pay grade. But I'm not kidding about something other than white for photographic reasons. The only thing worse than white would be gloss white. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted October 1, 2004 Share Posted October 1, 2004 You said "foo-foo". lol Sorry for my knee-jerk reaction. It's just that I can be driving down the road with Jenny, and she can draw a color swatch (from deep concealment), slap it against the window, and compare it to the shutter of the house we are driving by at 70mph...faster than I can put a hit on a wide open paper at 5y with my race gear. So it hurst me to hear red-blooded, fire in the viens, hair on fire, loud noise making, gunslingers... talking about about colors that super man wouldn't wear. But, since you've effectively related it to doing good honest (and technical) work...I'll have to tough it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joer Posted October 1, 2004 Share Posted October 1, 2004 Hooters? Heh chriss, when we were in the mud and rain at the A8, why didn't you say something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriss Grube Posted October 2, 2004 Share Posted October 2, 2004 I was a little smarted that time and didn't go. It was the 3 gun in Rochester and the MASC that hooter's got me at this year. They warned me about booze and broads but ...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeInNePa Posted October 2, 2004 Share Posted October 2, 2004 Yep, nothing like drinking beer and listening to some goofy Hooters wench tell you about her baby's daddy(who she's still kind of dating?!?). "It's Banging!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrettone Posted October 2, 2004 Share Posted October 2, 2004 Flexmeister: Bad ANALogy...Superman wears tights afterall....Things that just make ya go: hmmmmmmm???? Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted October 3, 2004 Share Posted October 3, 2004 SAAAAAAAAAAAKKKOOOOOOO!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indiana James Posted October 8, 2004 Share Posted October 8, 2004 Do you know what bling-bling is? I heard it in the Movie Hot Chick with Rob Schnieder. One of the High School girls mom's used it as a loving endearment. The mom was trying to be cool too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackdragon Posted October 10, 2004 Share Posted October 10, 2004 I would like to see the Nationals come back to Las Vegas, Not because I live here, I shot both open and limited when I lived in Colorado. But in July? I don't think so! There is a lot for the families of the shooters to do and flying in is relatively cheap. Hotels everywhere. Just a Thought. Ivan SCS Vegas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Bill Posted October 10, 2004 Author Share Posted October 10, 2004 ...... The mom was trying to be cool too! ..... Actually, this term is in my vernacular, and I like it. It adds some color to conversations with friends. Thanks for your kind words, friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmittyFL Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 Hell, I'm always for Vegas. Damn the shooting, I can pay for my trip in a couple hours at the tables. At least that's always my attitude beFORE I get there. Wherever and whatever the format is, you're not going to please everybody. It would be nice however if they would put out the information sooner. I was/am going to try and shoot the world shoot this year. If I can get past the getting the slot / shipping the ammo / getting guns there / and whatever else is needed. But if the Nationals and World Shoot are in back to back months, I don't know if I can afford the time or money for that. So it would be nice to know. Also I haven't heard anyone talk about format. Is it going to be the same or back to the split divisions? Anyone have any scoop? This year was my first nationals, and it was a great time. Yeah a week is too long to spend shooting for most of us. I don't have a family or anything but still, a week off work and the expense prevented me from shooting other matches I would have liked to. But hey, that's life. I didn't really have a problem with the down time. I understand there could have been problems with weather, etc. Plus by the time you got done shooting, check out the stages for the next day, watched some of the supersquad, it was time to get to the drinkin'. I guess if you don't drink there is nothing to do, but luckily I don't have that problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmittyFL Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 I wanted to start another post on this topic in case anyone got tired of reading my last post. One thing a buddy and I were talking about. I don't know the financials, but I've heard the Nationals has lost money in the past years. I don't know how that's possible or whether it's true or not and I don't know how they did this year. But I'm putting on a match this month for the first time. I've got 90+ shooters for a one day match and the budgeting has been the toughest part. When I started the process I was praying for 40 shooters so I could break even, now I'm having to cap it and wondering if we can get done in a day. If the Nationals had a hard cap on the number of shooters they could budget much easier. I don't want to make it an elite only event or anything like that, but I haven't heard of anyone that couldn't get a slot. If they would limit it to 300-400 or so, whatever the number might be. They could have a hard budget (maybe paint the walls) and maybe host it at other venues. If you know you've got 350 shooters x $250 or whatever the price is, it seems to me you could set the match so it makes money. Or at least doesn't lose it. You could set the schedule tighter, and I imagine more clubs could host it. Maybe the two range idea that someone mentioned would be easier to arrange. It just seems to me if you knew you were "for sure" going to have $87,500 (350 x $250) to put on the match, it would make everything easier. My opinion of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 I agree with Smitty. 500 shooters at $250 a piece is $125,000. If they can't budget the match with that money, something is very very wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Norman Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 Remember, last year we had 4 matches. 3-Gun, Factory Gun, Open, and Limited. We had two Ranges to staff, two weeks of expense and far fewer over all shooters. This year, I would think we had to make money, or at least break even. Not counting the 3-gun, we had 792 enties spread over 3 matches in 2003, now that was not 792 unique entries. This year we had 497 enties, unique entries. 300 fewer true, but all within one week. one set of staff expenses and one set of prizes. I'd bet a dollar to a donut that the finaces this year were much better. Lets's see, 24 stages, x 3 RO per stage = 72 RO, @ 2 RO per room, that is 36 rooms without any other staff, at $70 per night per Room, 7 nights, that right there is $17,640.00, now do we feed the staff, at least lunch? $5 for food and Gatorade?, 72 x 5 x 5+ $ 1,800.00 Range Rental? $5,000.00? more Less? Tents? a few hundred there USPSA Staff there is payroll, housing, transportation, few more thousand. Targets, have to be over $2,000.00 figure there were 24 stages and 4 changes a day for 5 days = over 5,000 targets. I'd say we've hit $35,000 by now. Prizes? Were they all donated? Not as far as I know. I'd venture that a lot of the money went there. I'd like to see an accounting the same as everyone else. BUt I know from past experiance that there are a lot of expenses in running even a small match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritinUSA Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 I doubt that we will get a definitive answer as to location/date of the 2005 US Nationals until January. I've shot at PASA in July before, it's not a pleasant experience but that time we were on the range for the whole day, with the schedule that we had this year (half day shooting) it may be manageable. Another option to improve things in PASA would be to start the afternoon shooting a couple of hours later than we did in September, there should be good daylight up to 7-8pm so maybe they could start the afternoon sessions at 3-4pm. After an hour or so the humidity may start to decline. Maybe someone who lives in the area could confirm the theory. As to Las Vegas, wouldn't that be hotter than hades in July/August ? We could always go back to Bend, Oregon. Where people are allowed to own guns but can't be trusted to fill their own gas tanks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Moore Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 it's our club, don't we get to see a detailed treasury report? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmittyFL Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 Let's not turn this into a political/financial debate. That was not my intent in the least. I'm confident they do the best they can to make or not lose money while putting on the best most professional match possible. Jim, I fully understand all the expenses involved. I know it ain't cheap. My point was though, if you decided you weren't going to lose money AND you had a hard budget from which to work, it seems to me it would be easier. If you know how much money you've got then you build the match within that budget. Maybe you can't have as many RO's or maybe you don't give them so much, or cut back on prizes if they are paying for them. If you capped it at 300 maybe you wouldn't need as many RO's or you could cut a day or two off. I'm not saying I have the answers, I don't, I just think if they had a limited number of shooters that they were pretty much guaranteed to get, it would make things easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoser Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 it's our club, don't we get to see a detailed treasury report? Yes, you do get to see the financial reports from Nationals. Dave Thomas is not yet able to produce the report, however, as there are still bills coming in from the match. I am cautiously optimistic that Nationals will show a small profit this year. Arnie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ong45 Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 Remember that the R.O.'s are there on their own time. what we spend for staff is a small price to pay to get the best. Cutting down the number of R.O.'s would just overwork the ones who are there. I would pay 50$ or a bit more to get the nationals out of the red, considering what i spent for the whole trip this would not be a dealbreaker. James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidwiz Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 The expense in having 2 or more Handgun nationals is not just the number of competitors: you have to pay than many more times for: 1) staff travel, 2) staff lodging, 3) staff per diem, 4) range fees, 5) printing expenses, etc. 2004 72 ROs x $300 (travel expenses) = $21,600 $60 (est for Qunicy bucks) = $4,320 $420 (7 nights @ $60/per) = $30,240 $50 (shirts) = $3,600 $40 (lunch for the week) = $2,880 = $62,640 Thats a conservative estimate on just the costs for the ROs. Add to that the other expenses for the rest of the staff, plus the expenses of running the match (printing, prizes, postage, range rental, targets, props, radios, pasters, paper, pens, etc.). To work with you have approx 550 competitors @ $220 each = $121,00 + whatever sponsorship/vendor money USPSA collected. If you have 2 or 3 Handgun Nationals, then you need to multiply that $62,640 figure by 2 or 3 + (the match expenses x number of matches). Taking all this into account, its not hard to see how having 2 or 3 Handgun Nationals is a money-losing proposition. -David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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