Want to load .223 rem

[Xfactor]

The only dies needed to load .223 are a size die, a seater and a crimper. The Redding competition set is designed for the accuracy bolt rifle crowd and you should full length resize with just a standard FL size die. I recommend using the Dillon sizer and the Dillon taper crimp die. Get the regular Dillon .223 size die, not the carbide one.

If you are setup right only four stations are needed.

1. Size/prime

2. Powder Charge

3. Bullet Seating (this is the only Redding die you need)

4. Crimp (Dillon taper crimp die only, do not use a roll style crimp die)

That's it

Crimping really is optional if your brass is properly chamfered and the expander ball in the sizer die sets the case mouth diameter right. The Gracey chamfers for you, but I don't trust only neck friction to prevent setback in semi-autos so I add a touch of crimp with the Dillon taper crimp die for safety reasons.

I use a 550B, but the 650 really is no different except in construction and some features. Same system applies, size, charge, cap, crimp.

Do make sure to use a quality case lube when you FL size. I prefer the Dillon spray stuff.

Get the L.E. Wilson .223 case gauge and use it to set your size die using a fired case as a comparator to make sure you get the right amount of shoulder setback for proper headspacing. 2-3 thousandths of setback compared to a fired case is about right.

The Stoney Point comparator allows you to get an accurate measurement of bullet length consistency because the insert uses the ogive of a bullet to get the OAL measurement rather than the tip. Match hollow point tips are irregular and won't allow real OAL comparison. The SP comparator system allows you to measure your rounds in a caliper from base to a repeatable spot on th bullet ogive instead of the tip. To use it, you assemble the whole thing with a finished round inside of it it and then measure the length of the whole contraption with a caliper. Me, I just average 20+ rounds of measurement and if it hovers around my desired OAL and the longest ones still fit the mags, I am good to go. I set it roughly and use the Redding micrometer seater to dynamically adjust the length of the finished rounds after the press is full and running. The Dillon toolhead has a little slop an if you are not using all stations, you may not get the same OAL range. I use the first few rounds made while adjusting as practice ammo.

I pre-size on a single stage press and then trim on my Gracey for my high grade ammo using Sierra Match Kings. I leave a sizer die in place but backed out so no sizing is done. This is done get the expander ball in and out of the neck to make sure there are no mouth dents and the decapper pin through the flash hole to make sure nothing is stuck in the flash hole from tumbling them after sizing and trimming.

For my cheap 55gr ball reloading, I don't bother with trimming and size right on the progressive. I tumble the finished rounds to get the Dillon lube off the outside. The Dillon lube has never been a problem with contamination used this way.

Regards,

Gotta love this forum: I was poking around for info on getting started with loading 223 on my 550, and there's already a great thread on the topic.

To those that are currently cranking out 223 on their 550/650s, is there anything new to add to this info, or is it still the same as 5 years ago?

The gist of what I gathered from reading through this thread is the following... (please correct me if I get any of this wrong!

Step 1 - Case Prep

** Many of these steps may not be necessary with prep'd brass from the start... (Are there still good sources for this?)

1. Size/deprime brass
   • This can be done on a separate single stage press, or via a separate dedicated toolhead with only size/deprime die in it... (or one at a time in the fully loaded 223 toolhead)
   • The size/deprime die is adjusted so that shoulder of the sized case is .001-.003" shy of a fired case (from the same chamber), measured with a headspace gauge
   • Dillon full length size/deprime die is recommended
     • ** Carbide vs. Non-Carbide: Why is non-carbide recommended?? **

[*]LE Wilson headspace gauge is recommended

[*]Trim/deburr, ream case

• Trimming - After sizing case, trim case to 1.75" in length
• Deburring - After (or at the same time as) trimming, deburr case mouth
  • Trimming can be done by a variety of tools, or via a machine like the Gracey
    • ** Does the Gracey trim and deburr, or just trim? Are there other - less expensive - options to perform this step? (RCBS Trim Mate?) **

  [*]Reaming - After trimming and deburring, for best crimping results, ream the inside of the case mouth to create a shallow leade[*]** Does brass need to be tumbled after all this case prep to get rid of all the shaved fragments? **[*]** What is recommended for deburring? **[*]Lyman VLD tool recommended for reaming

[*]Primer pocket prep

• For military brass (with crimped primer pocket), primer pocket must be swaged
  • ** Not sure what tool to use for this... or if it's even worth it to bother with using military brass (?) **
  • ** If pocket is not swaged, is it at least worthwhile to use a deburr/uniforming tool? **

[*]Lube case

• Lube case body only
  • ** I've read that one method is to roll the cases on a lube pad... is there an advantage to this over just spraying them with Dillon case lube? **
  • ** After sizing, is it recommended to tumble (or otherwise clean) brass to remove the lube before proceeding, or is it better to wait until the round is finished? **

Step 2 - Assemble Round

1. Station 1 - Sizing/depriming
   • If sizing/depriming was already completed during case prep, then sizing die can be backed-out to only check case neck/mouth specs, and verify that the primer hole is clear of obstructions
     • ** What die is recommended for verifying neck sizing? **

[*]Station 2 - Powder drop

• No case mouth belling (like with pistol cartridges) is performed... just a powder drop - either from the progressive powder measure, or manually

[*]Station 3 - Bullet seating

• Redding Competition micrometer seating die is recommended

[*]Station 4 - Crimp

• Very slight crimp is recommended - just enough to flatten the case mouth around the bullet
  • Adjust crimp die with only one round in press to gauge that it's applying only slight pressure to the case mouth - just enough to close the gap around the bullet

  [*]Dillon taper crimp die is recommended

Step 3 - Finishing Touches

1. Case gauge to verify specs
   • JP drop-in gauges are recommended

[*]OAL verification

• Stoney Point bullet comparator is recommended
• OAL must be 2.255 or less to fit AR magazines

[*]Tumbling finished rounds to remove case lube (if not already done after initial sizing)

• ** How long is it recommended to tumble? **

Edited March 4, 2010 by Xfactor

[trickpony]

Gotta love this forum: I was poking around for info on getting started with loading 223 on my 550, and there's already a great thread on the topic.

To those that are currently cranking out 223 on their 550/650s, is there anything new to add to this info, or is it still the same as 5 years ago?

The gist of what I gathered from reading through this thread is the following... (please correct me if I get any of this wrong!

Step 1 - Case Prep

** Many of these steps may not be necessary with prep'd brass from the start... (Are there still good sources for this?)

1. Size/deprime brass
   • This can be done on a separate single stage press, or via a separate dedicated toolhead with only size/deprime die in it... (or one at a time in the fully loaded 223 toolhead)
   • The size/deprime die is adjusted so that shoulder of the sized case is .001-.003" shy of a fired case (from the same chamber), measured with a headspace gauge
   • Dillon full length size/deprime die is recommended
     • ** Carbide vs. Non-Carbide: Why is non-carbide recommended?? **

[*]LE Wilson headspace gauge is recommended

[*]Trim/deburr, ream case

• Trimming - After sizing case, trim case to 1.75" in length
• Deburring - After (or at the same time as) trimming, deburr case mouth
  • Trimming can be done by a variety of tools, or via a machine like the Gracey
    • ** Does the Gracey trim and deburr, or just trim? Are there other - less expensive - options to perform this step? (RCBS Trim Mate?) **

  [*]Reaming - After trimming and deburring, for best crimping results, ream the inside of the case mouth to create a shallow leade[*]** Does brass need to be tumbled after all this case prep to get rid of all the shaved fragments? **[*]** What is recommended for deburring? **[*]Lyman VLD tool recommended for reaming

[*]Primer pocket prep

• For military brass (with crimped primer pocket), primer pocket must be swaged
  • ** Not sure what tool to use for this... or if it's even worth it to bother with using military brass (?) **
  • ** If pocket is not swaged, is it at least worthwhile to use a deburr/uniforming tool? **

[*]Lube case

• Lube case body only
  • ** I've read that one method is to roll the cases on a lube pad... is there an advantage to this over just spraying them with Dillon case lube? **
  • ** After sizing, is it recommended to tumble (or otherwise clean) brass to remove the lube before proceeding, or is it better to wait until the round is finished? **

Step 2 - Assemble Round

1. Station 1 - Sizing/depriming
   • If sizing/depriming was already completed during case prep, then sizing die can be backed-out to only check case neck/mouth specs, and verify that the primer hole is clear of obstructions
     • ** What die is recommended for verifying neck sizing? **

[*]Station 2 - Powder drop

• No case mouth belling (like with pistol cartridges) is performed... just a powder drop - either from the progressive powder measure, or manually

[*]Station 3 - Bullet seating

• Redding Competition micrometer seating die is recommended

[*]Station 4 - Crimp

• Very slight crimp is recommended - just enough to flatten the case mouth around the bullet
  • Adjust crimp die with only one round in press to gauge that it's applying only slight pressure to the case mouth - just enough to close the gap around the bullet

  [*]Dillon taper crimp die is recommended

Step 3 - Finishing Touches

1. Case gauge to verify specs
   • JP drop-in gauges are recommended

[*]OAL verification

• Stoney Point bullet comparator is recommended
• OAL must be 2.255 or less to fit AR magazines

[*]Tumbling finished rounds to remove case lube (if not already done after initial sizing)

• ** How long is it recommended to tumble? **

I'll give you my $.02 worth regarding your items in blue above...

I run a carbide die, since I switched from RCBS non carbide full length sizing die to the Dillon carbide unit I've not stuck any more cases.

The Gracey trims and deburs inside & outside I believe... And I do tumble the brass after trimming to get the case lube off before loading. I have a trim pro power trimmer for sale if you're looking for something that a bit less money

Dillon makes a super swager that will remove the military crimp. Or if you load on a 1050 that's built in

I use the Dillon case lube, put 100 rounds in a plastic bag, squirt 3 or 4 times into the bag and roll the lube around the cases. Then I full length size & deprime, trim, tumble, case check with a Dillon case checker then load. All I run on the loader is something to deprime with (I use an RCBS X-Die that doesn't really do anything) to knock any tumbler media out of the primer hole and the powder die and a seater die.

I don't tumble loaded rounds. I tumble before I size and after I trim.

Hope this helps a bit

[George]

OK, responses in order of questions. (BTW, I agree with trickpony on all except the carbide die).

Carbide dies are brittle and will crack if you use "cam-over" where the die contacts the shell plate and applies pressure against it when the ram cams over. Plain steel dies are more ductile and will allow this. I always find cam over needed to get the correct amount of sizing on my single stage press. I also like running lubed cases as press force is lower when cases are lubricated. Use Dillon lanolin based spray lube.

The gracey and the giraud trim, debur and chamfer the inside of the case mouth in one step. The chamfer keeps copper from shaving when seating the bullet. Forster style trimmers (RCBS, LLee, Dillon Power Trimmer, etc...) all leave a ragged square case mouth and need cleanup work to be done afterwords. The Forster style trimmers trim against the base of the case. The gracey and giraud trim referencing the shoulder of the case. This is a much superior way as the case indexes against the case shoulder in the chamber. This provides a consistent leade jump for the bullet and better accuracy. There is no such thing as a cheap lunch here, get the good tools (gracey or giraud)

The primer pockets only need reaming/swaging if you are de-capping military brass that has crimped in primers. Popping out crimped primers leaves a burr on the primer pocket lip that must be removed. You can get specialized swaging tools but I find the little deburring tool from RCBS to do the job quite well. The swagers I have tried still leave a little lip or bump so I prefer removing the metal with a deburring tool rather than squooshing it back into place with a swager. The benefit to using the deburrer tool to do this is that there is now a lead in chamfer on the primer pocket and you will not occasionally squoosh primers when seating them anymore.

Dillon spray lube is the total shiznit. Lube pads suck. Imperial sizing wax is good too, but using it is a butt slow process where you rub it on each case by hand. Use the Dillon spray and just dump 50-100 cases into a shallow cardboard box and spritz them then roll the cases around in the box for a few seconds and size them. No easier or better way IMHO.

When you pre-size using a single stage press the die in the first station on a progressive is only used to remove case neck dents that occur after tumbling. Set this die to just pass the expander ball through the case mouth and run the depriming pin out the flash hole (this removes and tumbling media that might get stuck there). Do not screw the die in far enuff to actually force the case neck into the die and push the shoulder back any further. I use another Dillon FL non-carbide size die here as I want the expander ball to be exactly the same as the one in the die that sized the case on the single stage press.

You tumble empty cases until they are clean, bright and shiny. With good new media it takes me 2-4 hours to get this result, your mileage may vary. I tumble processed cases before loading to make sure they are clean as a whistle. To clean lube off loaded cases run in a single batch process on a progressive, I pour a couple tablespoons of isopropyl alchohol into the tumbling media and tumble the loaded ammo for 5-10 minutes. This gets the lanolin based lube off the cases fast. You can leave the lube on to no ill effect but I don't like sticky ammo

[Xfactor]

Brett, Geoff,

Thanks for the replies!

For non-military/crimped primer pocket brass, do you guys still do any primer pocket deburring/uniforming (e.g. with the RCBS hand tool or an RCBS trim mate)?

(Geoff, is this the RCBS deburring tool you were referring to?)

In addition to the Gracey, is there a hand tool for inside/outside case mouth deburring that you like?

Geoff, regarding your process of using a VLD reamer to create a shallow leade, do you still do this? Is the result of this reaming more refined than what the Gracey trimmer does?

Also, regarding Isopropyl alcohol in the tumbling media to clean off the lube, do you use the same media for regular cleaning as well? Or put another way, is there any issue with leaving the alcohol in the media all the time? (Or does it evaporate after running one batch anyway?)

Do you do any case neck thickness/concentricity gauging, etc., or is this more the territory of bench rest shooters?

Any experience with the Forster Stuck Case Remover die? It seems like a simple and well-regarded tool... or is there a better method?

Thanks again for the help!

[Xfactor]

I just order a Gracey trimmer... guess I'm committed now!

[Dan Sierpina]

I just order a Gracey trimmer... guess I'm committed now!

One addition you will quickly want for the Gracey, is a carbide cutter, to replace the factory pieces.

You can get it here...http://bjonessights.com/CARBIDE.html

[RiggerJJ]

You are wasting time deburring/chamfering after trimming for 3 gun. the Dillon trimmer does a fine job, and you don't have to handle the brass so much. with a 2 head process (1st head brass prep, 2nd head loading) just tumble the brass after the 1st head, and unless you have a 1050, swage the crimped brass with the Dillon Super Swage. Tumbling will remove the burrs and leave a nice trimed case. then load it and add a slight crimp at the end. (the slight crimp will help prevent setback in the auto loading AR15)

You can use a primer pocket chamfering tool instead of the Dillon swager, but be careful not to chamfer the pocket too much. If you over-chamfer the primer pocket you may see primers spitting out of the brass during the firing cycle of the AR15, and these spit out primers usually end up down in the trigger area, just where you don't want em!

Always use lube when sizing!

I was leary of this trim without chamfering/deburring which the guys at Dillon suggested, so I decided to put it to the test. I took 2 batches of identical brass (all Lake City), preped both batches, and then took one and deburred/chamfered. Loaded them both with identical loads and bullets, and took them to the range. Out of all of my AR15s, the better accuracy was from the batch that was just trimmed (and not deburred/chamfered), the best was just under a MOA! so much for handling the brass so many times...plenty good enough for 3 gun!

Try the test yourself...

I use this process for both 223 in AR15s and 308 in AR10s. If I do my part the mechanical accuracy of the ammo is more than good for hitting a 10 inch plate at 200-400 yards. I would much rather spend less time in the reloading room and more on the range practicing! it takes me just about 2 hours to start with 1000 cases of fired brass and end up with loaded ammo, not including tumbling time, on a 1050.

Never heard of the carbide die cracking problems George mentioned. With Dillon's suggestion, I have always used a carbide sizing die before the dillon trimmer with great results. You may know that the die the Dillon trimmer sets on is a full length sizing die itself, but they say to use a seperate decapper/sizer before trimming.

the 2 head process is the quickest way, less time actually touching the brass!

jj

[Fireant]

JJ,

Tell me how you have the two 1050 heads set up. I have the extra tool head, dillon dies and a dillon trimmer I just need to know how to set things up.

Thanks.

[RiggerJJ]

the 1st head just does case prep, not all die holes have dies;

1. Dillon carbide full length resize/decap

2. swage (has the full swage die on top, but to keep from over-working the neck I have removed the expanding portion at the top of the long center part of the die that holds the case down on the swager)

3. Dillon trimmer

4. Redding body die (not required, just bumping the shoulder to make guage for all my chambers, 223 and 5.56, doesn't touch the neck)

tumble for and hour or two to remove trim burrs and lube.

2nd head does just the loading, not all die holes have dies;

1. universal decapper (doesn't touch the brass, just clears the primer pocket and flash hole of any tumbling media, etc)

2. swage and expand (has the full swage die on top, doesn't hurt to swage a second time, has the expander portion)

3. primer

4. powder

5. bullet seater

6. crimper (just a slight crimp to help prevent setback in ARs)

hope this helps!

jj

[Fireant]

Thanks. Just one more piece to order and I'll be cranking out some 69 SMK's to play with for a whole lot less than factory ammo costs.

[Jesse Tischauser]

Thanks. Just one more piece to order and I'll be cranking out some 69 SMK's to play with for a whole lot less than factory ammo costs.

Great thread guys! I'm gonna try to reload some 223 this summer as well. Has anyone updated the cost savings of reloading with match grade bullets like the aforementioned 69 SMK's. I'm just wondering how long it will take to break even on my new reloading machine that costs more than my first car.

Edited March 16, 2010 by jtischauser

[Fireant]

Here is a very basic and simple breakdown for 77 gr SMK The case price from Atlanta Arma is $745 and a case from midway for the Federal match 77 gr SMK is $1550 plus shipping. I can buy brass for $90 per K, bullets for $212 K, Fed match primers for $35, and powder for $60. That gives me a grand total of about $397 per K of 77 gr SMK. Depending on what you would have bought the cost saving add up quick.

[Xfactor]

Here is a very basic and simple breakdown for 77 gr SMK The case price from Atlanta Arma is $745 and a case from midway for the Federal match 77 gr SMK is $1550 plus shipping. I can buy brass for $90 per K, bullets for $212 K, Fed match primers for $35, and powder for $60. That gives me a grand total of about $397 per K of 77 gr SMK. Depending on what you would have bought the cost saving add up quick.

Are match primers a worthwhile investment over regular Fed SR primers?

By the way, what powders do you like for 223?

[Fireant]

I don't know if the match primers are needed, but I was able to get them for the same price as the regular primers. I was just using what I had. Right now I am liking Ramshot TAC for powder. It meters well, is cheap and JP recommended it for my gun.

[RiggerJJ]

TAC is a good 223 powder. I use Varget for heavy bullets (68-69gn and up) and 2230 for 55s.

jj

[kamikaze1a]

Regarding sb sizing dies, I have one but don't use it for my current rifle. I think it sizes down the case more than my chamber needs. Even after firing and then resizing with a conventional die, I can still see/feel a step where the sb die sized down the case near the head. It seems that it never expanded back and the conventional die is not even touching the sb sized down area of the brass above the case head. For my chamber, it seems the standard does a good enough job.

As for crimping, I crimp lightly. I'm still testing so have not determined whether no crimp, light crimp or heavy crimp gives me the best accuracy with my rifle but knowing that I have reduced the chances of a set-back or bullet extending when the bolt slams home is good enough for me...

Edited July 23, 2010 by kamikaze1a

[KentG]

Great thread. After pricing buying a case of 69 SMK from Georga Arms @ $580 and a case of BlackHills of the same from Midaway is $840 and thats not shipped. And you cant even FIND BlackHills which I need a couple boxes for a match soon.

Im going the Scharch for fully preped brass. I figure one pound of Varget for $20 and 1K of 69 SMK from Midway are $185 delivered and that comes out to about $375 a case. I can use Milsurp for practice.

Looks like I need a head for the 650 and a powder throw, a neck sizer maybe, a Redding seating die and a crimp die of manufacture to be determined. I have to reread this thread for the 3rd time but I think all I have to do is use the Lyman reamer, throw powder, seat and crimp unless I need to bell but with the Scharch it seems popular opinion is not needed.

I am still scratching my head over if I need to lube to seat and crimp ??

Obviousely I have never done rifle ammo. Makes me apreciate how easy it is to load 45 ammo.

If I can just throw powder, seat and crimp with BlackHills results I will be tickled.

IF I just do that and dont get close to BH groups time to look at the rest.

This is going to be a cold weather project not to start till after Thanksgiving. Now I have to go find the closest BH ammo recipe.

Thanks in advance to all of the posters who started this thread and contine to give help.

Edited August 27, 2010 by tnek

[RiggerJJ]

Great thread. After pricing buying a case of 69 SMK from Georga Arms @ $580 and a case of BlackHills of the same from Midaway is $840 and thats not shipped. And you cant even FIND BlackHills which I need a couple boxes for a match soon.

Im going the Scharch for fully preped brass. I figure one pound of Varget for $20 and 1K of 69 SMK from Midway are $185 delivered and that comes out to about $375 a case. I can use Milsurp for practice.

Looks like I need a head for the 650 and a powder throw, a neck sizer maybe, a Redding seating die and a crimp die of manufacture to be determined. I have to reread this thread for the 3rd time but I think all I have to do is use the Lyman reamer, throw powder, seat and crimp unless I need to bell but with the Scharch it seems popular opinion is not needed.

I am still scratching my head over if I need to lube to seat and crimp ??

Obviousely I have never done rifle ammo. Makes me apreciate how easy it is to load 45 ammo.

If I can just throw powder, seat and crimp with BlackHills results I will be tickled.

IF I just do that and dont get close to BH groups time to look at the rest.

This is going to be a cold weather project not to start till after Thanksgiving. Now I have to go find the closest BH ammo recipe.

Thanks in advance to all of the posters who started this thread and contine to give help.

Lubing is VERY necessary for sizing brass, but after the brass is preped, (decaped, sized, trimmed) you will not need lube to prime, powder, seat, or crimp.

loading rifle ammo is done best with a 2 head 2 step process; 1, prep the brass, 2, load it.

jj