Want to load .223 rem

[George]

The only SB RCBS .223 size die I ever used is now in a landfill somewhere with a well lubed lake City case embedded in it. I absolutely loathe the RCBS SB size dies.

I haven’t tried RCBS X Dies as I am happy with my Dillon size and crimp dies and haven’t found a reason to move anywhere else (yet).

Same for the FCD. I check my match rounds in a JP drop gauge which is tighter than Jessica Simpsons jeans and if it passes that, it’s fine. Everything that get’s sized in my Dillon size die almost always passes the JP gauge which is cut to the SAAMI minimum. If it gravity drops in and out of the JP, it’s better than factory (BTW, I get about 1 in 10 factory ball that won’t pass the JP gauge gravity drop test).

--

Regards,

[Gun Geek]

The only SB RCBS .223 size die I ever used is now in a landfill somewhere with a well lubed lake City case embedded in it. I absolutely loathe the RCBS SB size dies.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, I think it is clear that you don't like SB dies, and that's cool. Why? There may be something about them I haven't hit yet or don't attribute to the die.

[George]

I thought the RCBS small base die was the heat for reloading .223 for semi-auto’s until I started using Lake City brass instead of exclusively WW. I guess the LC has a springier quality (I know it doesn’t grow quite as much after sizing as the WW does) and won’t tolerate the RCBS SB as well as more ductile brass does. I was constantly sticking LC cases no matter how much, or little lube I used until I got the mutha’ of all stuck cases and gave up on extracting the sucka’

I am not the only one here that hates them either (search and ye shall find).

--

Regards,

[ErikW]

Yeah I was a S.B. hater. But then I learned not to use One Shot, but rather a lanolin/alchohol case lube.

[George]

Erik, my badly stuck case (all the stuck cases in fact) was with Dillon lube which I believe is a lanolin based lube. It’s all I have ever used since I discovered it in 88.

The Dillon .223 die sizes pretty much the same as the RCBS SB ever did, but has never, ever stuck a case for me, even with too much and too little lube.

--

Regards,

[Gun Geek]

I thought the RCBS small base die was the heat for reloading .223 for semi-auto’s until I started using Lake City brass instead of exclusively WW. I guess the LC has a springier quality (I know it doesn’t grow quite as much after sizing as the WW does) and won’t tolerate the RCBS SB as well as more ductile brass does. I was constantly sticking LC cases no matter how much, or little lube I used until I got the mutha’ of all stuck cases and gave up on extracting the sucka’

I am not the only one here that hates them either (search and ye shall find).

--

Regards,

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Now that's what i've been looking for. I have had some problems with sticking cases.

[rtr]

Ok well I've got most of the stuff I need, however it occurred to me that it may be hard to measure OAL of a .223 round with my regular dillon calipers that I use for pistol rounds, is there some special tool for measuring OAL of .223 and other "pointy" rounds?

[ErikW]

Calipers work fine. Don't sweat little variations because the bullet tips vary, especially match hollow points. Just make sure they are under 2.255" to fit in an M16 magazine.

[M4 Mike]

If you want to save money, try looking into AA2230C powder. It's military pull-down power from .223 rounds. I use it and have great results. About $70 for an 8lb keg. Try Natchez or Graf's for that powder. You can use the data for the Accurate 2230 powder, too.

[Patrick Sweeney]

My experience with SBD is that it was a royal pain in the ass to get the cases sized, and I could not see any change in reliability for the effort. (My ammo was 100% before. How was a small base die going to improve that?)

I always crimp. At Second Chance I'd go through ammo like it was going out of style. I stored my loaded and gauged ammo in empty eight-pound powder drums. I'd go through two of those getting ready for SC, and another at SC. I never had a problem. the one AR I've seen blown up was being fired with un-crimped reloads. Perhaps it was a coincidence, but I've seen too much ammo extracted from a malf, to find bullets set back, to not crimp.

I can get 55 grain ball in the under $150/K price, but I reload it anyway. I have to make room for other stuff, and the easiest way is to shot up the 15,000 55 gr. fmj's I have boxed under my loading bench.

[JohnRodriguez]

I want to start loading .223 which I shoot for 3gun, I shoot it in a Colt AR that has a 5.56 chamber.  I load on a 550.  What dies, etc. do I need to buy?  thanks.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

First off, go and get yourself a book on NRA highpower shooting. If you get one by David Tubbs then it will have good info on reloading. If you are going to be planning on shooting in windy conditions, get the sierra 77gr bullet, they only come in boxes of 500, and for match day they are great. I prefer hornady dies over dillon, the choice is yours. Rifle brass, stay away from federal(its primer pockets are too soft), buy your brass in bulk oncefire and if you can get it, use only winchester brass. Stay away from military brass, it's too much trouble to get into shooting condition. A good place to get brass is www.blue-star-inc.com. For powder use what's the cheapest and most available to you. my prefrence in Hogdon's H335 of Benchmark. If you are going to be reuseing the brass a lot then get a gracy trimmer. Don't wast your time getting a OAL measuring tool, they are only good it you are going to be loading your bullets out to touching a rifling. Just get a AR mag and seat the bullet till it just clears and feed easily into the mag, maybe about 1/16" clearance.

When all is said and done. It would be cheaper and easier to just go and buy the winchester white box ammo in 55 gr ammo, unless you are going to be shooting highpower, special hunting bullets, etc. Reloading 223 for a 3 gun match where you won't be able to pick up your brass is not worth it.

[rtr]

I'm happy to say that I've loaded and shot around 500 rounds of .223 using .55gr hornady bullets, fully prepped LC brass from Scharch, Federal SRPs and varget powder, using dillon dies.

[George]

Re-manufactured 55gr ball can be had for about $140/k. I can roll my own 55gr using 1x brass from Scharch for about .13/each. I know my time is worth more than .01/round, but I feel that my stuff which holds at least MOA and better in my AR's is worth it.

Dillon dies are the best choice to start with. I use Dillon dies for everything but bullet seating and prefer the Redding micrometer seating die for that.

The best books to get on re-loading are any re-loading manual by Sierra, Lyman, RCBS, etc.. and Handloading for Competition by Glen Zediker at http://www.zediker.com/

--

Regards,

[slowsure]

Being a newby to loading .223, I took most of the advise listed in this thread and found it to be execellent advise.

The main thing I learned is that case prep is 80% of the work involved with reloading .223. I know I know... I can buy 100% processed cases cheap but I'm cheaper than cheap and have acess to alot of pickup at our range.

The time I spend cleaning, sorting, cleaning the stuck media out of cases, sizing, trim, deburr, check is huge, but my time is cheap and so I'm I.

I'm not complaining but just wanted to point out that reloading rifle is more time consuming than pistol if you are going to prep your own cases. I find myself saying you really have to want to reload .223 to do all the case prep yourself.

Maybe someday I'll buy the auto case trimmer ?grasey?

[jimstc]

This thread was started on the assumption that a Dillon 550 was being used to load .223. Are there any different suggestions if a Dillon 650 is being used?

Thanks,

Jim

[George]

Not really, other than caliber changing on the 650 being a little differnt'

[jimstc]

Well, it is winter in the Midwest so I thought I would start loading .223. I load 5 pistol calibers and assumed rifle loading would come easy. Umm, was I ever wrong.

I am loading on a 650. I have tons of brass that was originally Lake City factory that I bought and shot through my rifle.

I followed this thread and generally followed the advice given. I bought Redding dies, a Gracey trimmer, the necessary Dillon conversion stuff, a Stoney Point bullet Comparator and .223 insert ( which I cannot figure out how to use ) and off I went.

Well, the Redding dies don't make sense. I bought the 3 die competition set which is comprised of the Bushing Style Neck Sizing die ( I guess this is supposed to neck size and deprime ) , the Comp Bullet Seating die ( I use this with all my pistol calibers and am good to go with it ), and the Body die which I think is a full length resizing die. When I bought the set I somehow thought this was the crimp die.

So, I do my caliber conversion today and size and deprime some brass. Next to the Gracey. Umm, no trimming. Back to the Gracey instructions and I realize that it will only work with full length resized brass. I then run all the brass throught the body die which is at station 5 on the toolhead. Back to the Gracey and it works great. All brass at 1.75.

Questions:

1. Based on the consensus of this thread, I need a crimp die. Where does the body die go if I put the crimp die in station 5?

2. Doesn't the body die replicate part of what the Neck sizing die does? But it doesn't deprime and yet it is necessary for the Gracey.

3. Any and all advice is much appreciated.

Thanks,

Jim

[George]

The only dies needed to load .223 are a size die, a seater and a crimper. The Redding competition set is designed for the acuracy bolt rifle crowd and you should full length resize with just a standard FL size die. I recommend using the Dillon sizer and the Dillon taper crimp die. Get the regular Dillon .223 size die, not the carbide one.

If you are setup right only four stations are needed.

1. Size/prime

2. Powder Charge

3. Bullet Seating (this is the only Redding die you need)

4. Crimp (Dillon taper crimp die only, do not use a roll style crimp die)

That's it

Crimping really is optional if your brass is properly chamfered and the expander ball in the sizer die sets the case mouth diameter right. The Gracey chamfers for you, but I don't trust only neck friction to prevent setback in semi-autos so I add a touch of crimp with the Dillon taper crimp die for safety reasons.

I use a 550B, but the 650 really is no different except in construction and some features. Same system applies, size, charge, cap, crimp.

Do make sure to use a quality case lube when you FL size. I prefer the Dillon spray stuff.

Get the L.E. Wilson .223 case gauge and use it to set your size die using a fired case as a comparator to make sure you get the right amount of shoulder setback for proper headspacing. 2-3 thousandths of setback compared to a fired case is about right.

The Stoney Point comparator allows you to get an accurate measurement of bullet length consistency because the insert uses the ogive of a bullet to get the OAL measurement rather than the tip. Match hollow point tips are irregular and won't allow real OAL comparison. The SP comparator system allows you to measure your rounds in a caliper from base to a repeateble spot on th bullet ogive instead of the tip. To use it, you assemble the whole thing with a finished round inside of it it and then measure the length of the whole contraption with a caliper. Me, I just average 20+ rounds of measurement and if it hovers around my desired OAL and the longest ones still fit the mags, I am good to go. I set it roughly and use the Redding micrometer seater to dynamically adjust the length of the finished rounds after the press is full and running. The Dillon toolhead hea a little slop an if you are not using all stations, you may not get the same OAL range. I use the first few rounds made while adjusting as practice ammo.

I pre-size on a single stage press and then trim on my Gracey for my high grade ammo using Sierra Match Kings. I leave a sizer die in place but backed out so no sizing is done. This is done get the expander ball in and out of the neck to make sure there are no mouth dents and the decapper pin through the flash hole to make sure nothing is stuck in the flash hole from tumbling them after sizing and trimming.

For my cheap 55gr ball reloading, I don't bother with triming and size right on the progressive. I tumble the finished rounds to get the Dillon lube off the outside. The Dillon lube has never been a problem with contamination used this way.

Regards,

[slowsure]

jimstc,

I wont be any help on the Redding die info your looking for or the 650 either, but what I do on my 550b is I bought a seperate tool head for the 550. Then installed a size die only in it.

I run all of my brass through it to size and get the case shoulder where I want it first, then I trim all the brass and deburr (I wish I could afford the Gracey).

I then put another tool head in with size die (backed off some), powder die, seat, crimp die's in and finish load them up.

I believe I got this method in this thread or it was here on Brian's site somewhere. You could do the same with your 650 with more speed as the 650 has the case feed and auto index.

This is working out great for me as far as more accurate ammo at longer ranges.

[jimstc]

I set up my 650 today to load .223. Dillon sizing die, powder die and crimp die. Redding seating die. Once fired LC brass, sized and case checked. Sierra Match King .224 52gr HPBT. I got the OAL at 2.245 and ran the round through the crimp die. I then did a set back test and , without much effort ,drove the bullet into the case. After checking my die set up I repeated this four more times.

What am I missing??

Thanks,

Jim

[AlamoShooter]

I set up my 650 today to load .223. Dillon sizing die, powder die and crimp die. Redding seating die. Once fired LC brass, sized and case checked. Sierra Match King .224 52gr HPBT. I got the OAL at 2.245 and ran the round through the crimp die. I then did a set back test and , without much effort ,drove the bullet into the case. After checking my die set up I repeated this four more times.

What am I missing??

Thanks,

Jim

The crimp sation should be adjusted with just one round in the station. It is a compromise of very little crimp like for a bench rest gun to a hard crimp for a magazine gun.

RTR

when you order your stuff spend the $20 to get a "Stuck case removal tool" It will save you plenty of time fustration when you stick a case in the dies. "When" is a given.

[OpnBlstr]

For stuck cases I used to just loosen the decap stem, screw the die into the Rockchucker upside down, place a quarter on the shellholder, and drive the case back out with the decap stem.

It worked plenty of times for me and was sure faster than using the stuck case kit where you retract the decap pin, remove the die, drill the case, tap the case, put die back in press, slip in screw threaded thingy into ram, screw it into case, and carefully pull case out.

[AlamoShooter]

For stuck cases I used to just loosen the decap stem, screw the die into the Rockchucker upside down, place a quarter on the shellholder, and drive the case back out with the decap stem.

It worked plenty of times for me and was sure faster than using the stuck case kit where you retract the decap pin, remove the die, drill the case, tap the case, put die back in press, slip in screw threaded thingy into ram, screw it into case, and carefully pull case out.

I had to think about that for a moment just to picture it,,, I would have never thought of doing that. I gota get out of the box more offen. It is gong to be hard for me to try it though Maybe with an old decaping pin.

[DyNo!]

I'm looking at the cost/benefit of reloading .223 for my AR now that 3-gun is a reality for me. So, for general short range practice rounds and local matches (<100 yd):

Scharch 1X Brass: $45/1000

Win SRP: $16/1000

Powder: $52/1000

Bullets: $45/1000

Component cost: $158/1000 for 55 gr ball type loads. Not a whole lot of savings compared to Winchester White Box, PMC for Federal AE. But...once you start talking about premium bullets (50 gr Nosler, etc), then the real difference shows and realoading results in a substantial cost savings.

Those bullet and primer prices are from 2005.

Please let me know where you can find 1000 new .224 bullets for $45 and primers for $16/k in stock and I will send you $10.

Get a Giraud for trimming. Works like a charm.

Edited February 27, 2010 by DyNo!

[Xfactor]

I'm looking at the cost/benefit of reloading .223 for my AR now that 3-gun is a reality for me. So, for general short range practice rounds and local matches (<100 yd):

Scharch 1X Brass: $45/1000

Win SRP: $16/1000

Powder: $52/1000

Bullets: $45/1000

Component cost: $158/1000 for 55 gr ball type loads. Not a whole lot of savings compared to Winchester White Box, PMC for Federal AE. But...once you start talking about premium bullets (50 gr Nosler, etc), then the real difference shows and realoading results in a substantial cost savings.

Those bullet and primer prices are from 2005.

Please let me know where you can find 1000 new .224 bullets for $45 and primers for $16/k in stock and I will send you $10.

Get a Giraud for trimming. Works like a charm.

I just went through this thread and was thinking the same...