cz75ipsc Posted September 22, 2004 Share Posted September 22, 2004 My first poll. I really feel I would benefit from the extra round you are allowed if the slide stop is functional. Of course I could rack the slide but I feel that's just way too slow. Not really a big issue for me, but having the slide stop functional would prevent the slide from slamming on an empty chamber. Some people seem to think this is REALLY bad for the trigger job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skywalker Posted September 22, 2004 Share Posted September 22, 2004 I really feel I would benefit from the extra round you are allowed if the slide stop is functional. Of course I could rack the slide but I feel that's just way too slow. cz, I don't understand you. My SVI doesn't lock the slide (follower tabs ground), but I have the same mag capacity/gun reliability I would have if the slide stop was working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasonub Posted September 22, 2004 Share Posted September 22, 2004 My first poll.I really feel I woufunctional. Of course I could rack the slide but I feel that's just way too slow. ld benefit from the extra round you are allowed if the slide stop is Not really a big issue for me, but having the slide stop functional would prevent the slide from slamming on an empty chamber. Some people seem to think this is REALLY bad for the trigger job. when it slams forward its bad according to a lot of people. but my spring is only12 pounds thus the slide slams forward gently Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TriggerT Posted September 22, 2004 Share Posted September 22, 2004 I like the slide to lock back on the last round, especially in my L-10 gun since I am more likely to run it dry. I think if I were shooting an open gun, and maybe even in my limited gun I wouldn't really care either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dead Buff Posted September 22, 2004 Share Posted September 22, 2004 Mine locks back...with some mags. It makes no diff, however...I try not to run dry...miss a steel=reload, etc In my stage prep's I try to have at least 3-4 rounds spare in the mag...the tight stages, say 18 rounds with 18+1mags - shoot straight and have a backup plan.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogmaDog Posted September 22, 2004 Share Posted September 22, 2004 I voted "No, but I'd like it to" My slide stop was ground down so the mag follower no longer has anything to push up in order to stop the slide (I bought the gun used..."it was like that when I got there!") I've only run my gun dry once, and I was a bit flustered when I pulled the trigger and got "click", and then did immediate action and got "click", and then realized I needed to reload, and had to slingshot the slide. Still, 99% of the time, I don't run the gun dry. And even if the slide stop did work, it would be a rare case in which you'd really benefit from shooting dry instead of reloading with the last round from the old mag in the chamber. I don't think that you'll damage your trigger mechanism by allowing the slide to go forward on an empty chamber--if you still have the trigger pressed back (and you will, won't you?), it will be exactly the same situation as when you are firing, won't it? How is letting the slide slam home supposed to damage the trigger, anyway??? (probably some old-skool knowledge that applied before we had superior, hardened steel hammers and sears) I still don't let it slam home after "unload and show clear", though. DogmaDog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skywalker Posted September 22, 2004 Share Posted September 22, 2004 How is letting the slide slam home supposed to damage the trigger, anyway??? IIRC, the slide slamming home bounces the sear off the hammer hooks, while it's being held there by the 3-leaf spring. It causes premature wear on the sear-hammer contact surfaces that your smith carefully and thoughtfully stoned to give you taht marvellous trigger pull you're so proud of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeamGE Posted September 22, 2004 Share Posted September 22, 2004 QUOTE (DogmaDog @ Sep 22 2004, 03:20 PM) How is letting the slide slam home supposed to damage the trigger, anyway??? QUOTE (Skywalker @ Sep 22 2004, 06:26 AM) IIRC, the slide slamming home bounces the sear off the hammer hooks, while it's being held there by the 3-leaf spring. It causes premature wear on the sear-hammer contact surfaces that your smith carefully and thoughtfully stoned to give you taht marvellous trigger pull you're so proud of. I don't see it, don't believe it, never will. The slide lock pin and barrel link lug get beat up more than anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted September 22, 2004 Share Posted September 22, 2004 In IDPA, it's a good thing if your slide locks back, because you can gain a significant advantage when you have to shoot to slide lock. In USPSA and for carry, I don't think it matters. In fact, I think it would be better for both if it didn't. It's much, much, much better to have a gun that never locks back than one that might lock open prematurely. If you get a "click" instead of bang, you pretty much know what you need to do ... reload, run the slide, and keep going. A gun in battery without a round in the chamber is less troublesome than one that does not always go into battery, regardless of the reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skywalker Posted September 22, 2004 Share Posted September 22, 2004 Beven, you obviously have far more knowledge than me, thus I'd like to learn. In cases of light setting the sear leg of the 3-leaf spring, I have experienced hammer follows while letting the slide slam home on an empty chamber. This should mean that the slide slamming home is able to dislodge the sear from the hammer hooks; now, if the sear leg of said spring is correctly tuned, it will counter that movement by returning the sear to its position. Doesn't this cause premature wear on hammer hooks and sear primary/secondary angle? Where am I wrong? Could you instruct me and others on what happens really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalmas Posted September 22, 2004 Share Posted September 22, 2004 You learn something new everytime you log on here and that why it's such a addictive forum. I have deactivated my slide lock for several reasons, but mainly in the unlikely event that I would run dry i feel it much faster to rack the slide then to fiddle with the slide stop... I'm left handed and that makes it harder to naturally use the slide stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeamGE Posted September 22, 2004 Share Posted September 22, 2004 Why would anyone think that going dry, drop the hammer on an empty chamber, having to decide if the gun malfunctioned (usually racking the slide one or more times) and finding they need to reload, then reloading and racking the slide again, would be faster then the slide locking back like it is suppose to. All my guns lock back. I know we all say we don't want to shoot dry, but it happens. If I do, I know instantly when it happens, because I feel the slide stop. I punch a reload, and drop the slide either by my extended slide lock or pulling back on the slide, depending on the position I am in. Yes, you can tune your gun to do this. It is just one more thing that needs to be tuned and I don't thing anyone wants to take the time to do it. Countless hours of tuning is done to make the gun cycle right, track right, reset right, feel right, but having the slide lock work right just seems to be sluffed off as something that doesn't matter. Skywalker, this is a thread drift from the original post, but I will discuss this with you in short. If you drop the slide on an empty chamber, and you hammer follow, then your trigger job is no good. Usually the angle is wrong on the sear, worn parts, or maybe the leaf spring is too light. There is more shock when the slide hits home on an empty chamber, and this action is moving the sear and/or trigger and allowing the hammer to drop, just as if you pulled the trigger yourself. I do not see any difference in wear or damage to the sear or hammer from droping the slide on an empty chamber or pulling the trigger during normal fire or dry fire. As I stated befor, I don't recommend it because it is hard on the slide lock pin and mating barrel parts, another reason your slide lock should work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackdragon Posted September 22, 2004 Share Posted September 22, 2004 On my IPSC guns I have disabled the slide stop, Why? If it can lock back,it will! if it happens before its empty your stage is over! If I run dry it's still over! Ivan SCS Vegas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeamGE Posted September 22, 2004 Share Posted September 22, 2004 It ain't over till all the stages are done, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackdragon Posted September 22, 2004 Share Posted September 22, 2004 This is true, but 2 really bad stages ( as I had at the Nationals ) Will surely put your match in the toilet! Ivan SCS Vegas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cz75ipsc Posted September 22, 2004 Author Share Posted September 22, 2004 but I have the same mag capacity/gun reliability I would have if the slide stop was working. I've seen a lot of stages with a lot of windows, and some windows are further apart than others (thus making them better for reloads). Say there were 9 targets in the first four windows, that were pretty close, and 3 targets in the next two windows a bit farther away. If I barney up my CZ, I can get 18 in it, and do the reload after the first four windows, but I have to rack the slide (which is a lot more difficult than activating the slide stop WHILE MOVING). Maybe not the best example, but anyway you get the idea. You can leave a position with the gun dry, is all. I'd have the courage to do this if there were only paper targets and they were relatively close (~under 7m). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.Hayden Posted September 22, 2004 Share Posted September 22, 2004 For my production gun, I like it to lock back, especially on longer stages where 11 rounds are needed to shoot a particular array during a course of fire, then all I have to do is slam in a new magazine, and the slide will go forward by itself. This is much faster than loading a mag and racking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted September 22, 2004 Share Posted September 22, 2004 Gah, another poll with not enough options. Definately, a less-than-16-rounds gun should lock back. Mandatory for Limited 10, Production, and IDPA. It's not needed on a 18+ rounds gun (Limited, Open) but it's nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
short_round Posted September 22, 2004 Share Posted September 22, 2004 in the unlikely event that I would run dry i feel it much faster to rack the slide then to fiddle with the slide stop... I'm left handed and that makes it harder to naturally use the slide stop. Me too and I'm right handed. I tried a couple of stages where the gun started unloaded but could be started in slide lock ... so I did. It turned out I spent more time farting around with the slide release than it would have taken me if I would have racked. Why? because we rack the slide all the time during LAMR. We hardly ever use the slide release. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Larry Cazes Posted September 22, 2004 Share Posted September 22, 2004 In L10, I think it is a neccessity. As soon as I run dry, I want to see that slide locked back so that I can react as soon as possible to reload. I find it wastes a lot of time if I have to drop the hammer on an empty chamber to find out that I ran dry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingerjg Posted September 23, 2004 Share Posted September 23, 2004 on my open pistol id rather it not lock back at all, so i had the detent hole deepened so it is even hard to lock it back by hand. On my limited and production gun the slide stop should always work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin c Posted September 23, 2004 Share Posted September 23, 2004 I'm with Erik on this one. If you only have ten rounds in the gun, and will be able to anticipate when you (might) run dry, then reloading from slidelock is faster for me than having to rack the slide. I think most of us in these games, shooting low capacity guns can do this. It's trickier with a high cap ('scuse, STANDARD CAPACITY, NONKALI) magazine, because, for me, it's easier to lose the round count. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tri Burst Posted September 23, 2004 Share Posted September 23, 2004 Dropping the slide on a empty chamber will not damage the trigger job. This is another 1911 urban legend. Along with holding the trigger back while racking the slide some how stops hammer sear wear/damage. The hammer hooks and sear engagement edge slam together every time the slide goes from the open position to the closed/in battery position and the sear rides the hammer when the slide goes from in battery/closed position to open position cocking the hammer. Holding the trigger means nothing as the disconnector removes any trigger movement from reaching the sear once the slide has come out of battery. As for locking the slide back when the mag is empty. I wouldn't have it any other way. I have found you do need to cut the slide stop to mag follower engagement area so the slide does not lock back with 1 round left in the mag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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