RO role on timer?

[MadMadWorld]

I am throwing this question out there to get others views on a scenario that happened at the Nationals this past October.

It was my turn on the timer for the upcoming squad. CRO read the description and the standard walk through and what not.

I called for the first shooter to the line. Have the command "make ready". Shooter took a sight picture, made the comment "that was a funny looking sight picture...oh, I don't have the correct glasses on" and proceeded to load a magazine, rack the slide and reholster his gun. After he had holstered his gun, he made another comment "well, I will run the stage anyways".

He moved to the correct starting postion and I proceeded with the range commands "are you ready?" Nod from the shooter then I went into "stand by" and so forth.

Unfortunately for the shooter, he did not have a good run. Immediately after I had cleared the range the shooter started asking for a reshoot because he had the wrong glasses on and wasn't ready. He was clearly upset and told me so in a respectful enough manner. That means he didn't cuss at me or anything, but I think had I engaged in the conversation with him it would not have taken long to degrade.

All this was going on while I was scoring the stage and it was a distraction to me. The only thing I said to him while scoring was "if you have concerns over what happened, please direct them to the CRO, he is right beside you". The dialogue between the shooter and CRO went on for a bit and became relatively animated.

In the end, the shooter's run stood, no reshoot.

To me, when I am on the timer as an RO, I do not care who the shooter or what my personal opinion is, more at local than big matches, but I treat all shooters the same. I stick to the script, no banter, no extra conversation, no extra words. I want my commands to be as clear as pssible so there is no question as to what is said. I will not volunteer any additional information when a shooter is on the line. With that, if the shooter would have explicitly asked if he could change his glasses, I would have immediately let him, however, at no point did he directly ask for that.

I suppose the question would be what is your opinion of the situation and how would you have handled it?

[Flexmoney]

8.3.2 “Are You Ready?” – The lack of any negative response from the competitor indicates that he fully understands the requirements of the course of fire and is ready to proceed. If the competitor is not ready at the “Are You Ready?” command, he must state “Not Ready”. It is suggested that when the competitor is ready he should assume the required start position to indicate his readiness to the Range Officer

[Jaxshooter]

I would have done just as you did. He did not ask to change glasses. As you said had he asked I would have had him clear his gun and get his glasses. I would have started the next shooter to prevent a delay.

If he had a good run there would have been no mention of a reshoot.

[edwin garcia]

He nodded his head and did not say 'Not ready".

Good call. If he insists, he can ask for an arb.

[CZinSC]

To the OP, I completely agree with your call and how you handled it. As others have said, if he wasn't ready, he could have told you, he did not.

I would have done just as you did. He did not ask to change glasses. As you said had he asked I would have had him clear his gun and get his glasses. I would have started the next shooter to prevent a delay.

If he had a good run there would have been no mention of a reshoot.

I don't agree with this decision. Only if the next shooter looked at me and said "Hell yeah I'm ready to go". Many shooters, including myself, when we are on deck, use that moment to take one last walk through. In fact, many matches forbid anyone BUT the on deck shooter from doing a walkthrough after the official 5 minute walk through is over. Turning around and telling the next shooter he is now up is unfair. You are putting him/her at a disadvantage compared to the others. Some may say, "well let him do a walk through at that time." That is not the same. The shooter will feel rushed because everyone will be waiting on him. Plus, I'm sure it would be slower than allowing the first guy to go get his glasses.

I think the question is, Would you require the Shooter to ULSC before you allowed him to go to his bag?

[bobert1]

Ask a buddy to bring the correct glasses, or ULSC.

[Flexmoney]

... Many shooters, including myself, when we are on deck, use that moment to take one last walk through. In fact, many matches forbid anyone BUT the on deck shooter from doing a walkthrough after the official 5 minute walk through is over. ...

In those instances, I always allow the next shooter to walk the stage...the same as he would do while he was on deck as the stage was being scored. (I actually give them all the time they want. In every case so far, they are ready to go pretty quick.)

I think the question is, Would you require the Shooter to ULSC before you allowed him to go to his bag?

Of course.

5.7.5 Under no circumstances is a competitor permitted to leave a course of fire in the possession of a loaded handgun (see Rule 10.5.13).

[GuildSF4]

Shooters equipment, same as magazine, gun... His responsibility. No re-shoot. (I might have asked him if he wished to change glasses right up to the point where he said "well, I will run the stage anyways", after that it is his problem.)

[MadMadWorld]

I agree with Flex's response on the ULSC before going to his bag. I wouldn't let a competitor leave the line with a loaded gun.

[UW Mitch]

If he knew he had the wrong glasses on, he should have asked for an ULSC and asked nicely - "would be possible to swap my glasses and/or go 1-down if the next shooter is ready?". If I step up to the line with no batteries in my dot and say "oh well I'll just try it" and I shoot terrible, that's my fault, not the RO. I can't believe this even warranted a debate with the CRO.

~Mitch

[CZinSC]

... Many shooters, including myself, when we are on deck, use that moment to take one last walk through. In fact, many matches forbid anyone BUT the on deck shooter from doing a walkthrough after the official 5 minute walk through is over. ...

In those instances, I always allow the next shooter to walk the stage...the same as he would do while he was on deck as the stage was being scored. (I actually give them all the time they want. In every case so far, they are ready to go pretty quick.)

I agree 100%, but part of my point was in this case, allowing the shooter to ULSC, get the other set of glasses, come make to the line and MR, would have been faster than skipping to the next shooter, letting him do his walkthrough, etc, etc. Unless that other set of glasses was in the car...then yeah, "Next Shooter please!"

5.7.5 Under no circumstances is a competitor permitted to leave a course of fire in the possession of a loaded handgun (see Rule 10.5.13).

Thanks for pointing that out. I was thinking in my mind this was similar to when a popper falls down before the start and we have the shooter put their hands on their head, or just stand there not touching the gun while it gets reset. Clearly not the same thing, one is shooter standing still, the other shooter is walking around. Either way, as you have pointed out, the latter is against the rule you quoted. Thanks! I'm glad i asked.

[whitedog]

Can't believe this was actually a discussion on the part of the shooter. He knew he had inferior equipment,so to speak, and it was his call to continue. I tend to agree, if he ran it well he probably would not have asked for reshoot.

[ima45dv8]

Can't believe this was actually a discussion on the part of the shooter. He knew he had inferior equipment,so to speak, and it was his call to continue. I tend to agree, if he ran it well he probably would not have asked for reshoot.

^^^^ This.

[Sarge]

I'm confused. So we are saying we let the on deck shooter do another complete walk through after targets are scored? That does not happen where I shoot. It shouldn't be happening where you shoot.

[Flexmoney]

I'm confused. So we are saying we let the on deck shooter do another complete walk through after targets are scored?

I missed where anybody said that. the situation here is where the on deck shooter wouldn't get the same time as everybody else to "be on deck" on the stage

[CZinSC]

I'm confused. So we are saying we let the on deck shooter do another complete walk through after targets are scored? That does not happen where I shoot. It shouldn't be happening where you shoot.

I believe you are referring to my post. What I was talking about is once the current shooter is done, and the targets are being scored, the on deck shooter gets a "last chance walk through" while the targets are being scored. Once the scoring is done, the shooter usually makes their way back to the start position and is ready to go. In reference to the Original post, Jaxshooter said that if the current shooter had an issue at the Make Ready command, that he would skip him, and ask for the next shooter. It was my contention that this wasn't fair to the next guy because he didn't get his "last chance walk through". Flex then pointed out that under those circumstances, he would let that shooter take one last look since he was being called to the line sooner than he thought. I agree with Flex and would handle it the same way.

[Nik Habicht]

I'm confused. So we are saying we let the on deck shooter do another complete walk through after targets are scored? That does not happen where I shoot. It shouldn't be happening where you shoot.

No. What Flex was saying is that if for any reason you need to stand the current shooter down, and bring up the next guy -- who's thus deprived of being able to do his walkthrough while the stage is being reset -- you need to give that guy a minute or two to do just that.....