9mm powder comparison

[Racefan]

So I am going to try a few new powders just for the sake of comparison. I will be using my M&P 9mm with the stock 4.25" barrel. Also the bullet will be the 147gr Rainers. All will be loaded the same OAL of 1.150

Baseline load will be;

3.8gr of W231 @ 1.150. This shoots fairly well for me, gun functions well too.

I am looking for load suggestion for the following powders;

Titegroup, (3.2gr did not work well. I am thinking 3.8gr)

WSF

Clays (not International or Universal) a suggestion from an experienced shooter

Unique

These are what I have, and am not going to buy anything else for a while, so please do not suggest that I go buy another powder.

This is for my own experience, to see if I can make out the differences.

Plus its gonna snow for a few days and loading seems like a good pass time activity.

Thank you all!

[mwx40x40]

Try 4.1 WSF. You may need to work up from there. I ended up at 4.3, but that was with 147 MG CMJ @ 1.160

[fltbed]

I’ve loaded 147 gr. Precision Delta FMJ and Star JHP at 1.140 with:

3.6 gr. Titegroup (130 PF very dense, easy to double charge)

4.0 gr. WSF (132 PF)

I never considered Clays suitable for the 9mm and I haven’t loaded Unique in over twenty years.

Hope this helps.

Jeff

[GoinHot]

I am just finishing up loads for my 9mm with a new powder. Went with N320, 3.8gr, 1.160 OAL, 147 gr FMJ precision delta. 5" 1911. PF is 135. Seems to all work just fine.

[GoinHot]

I’ve loaded 147 gr. Precision Delta FMJ and Star JHP at 1.140 with:

3.6 gr. Titegroup (130 PF very dense, easy to double charge)

4.0 gr. WSF (132 PF)

I never considered Clays suitable for the 9mm and I haven’t loaded Unique in over twenty years.

Hope this helps.

Jeff

Jeff, do you like one better than the other?

Thanks

Tom

[Racefan]

Just did 3.8gr Titegroup, and 4.1 WSF. 100 each. Now how to load Clays!!??

[CocoBolo]

I'd suggest strongly that you do some accuracy testing expecially with the clays. I found that the clays shot fantastic problem was I just could not know where it was going. I had trouble keeping shots on an 8" plate at 25 yards, while it kept hitting the same spot with N320. YMMV

I didn't like tightGroup, not just cause it burned insanely hot, and it was dirty in the gun like burned pizza barf, just cause it recoiled like a Plummer bucking bull.

That w231 is the ugly twin to WST and that works wonderful with lead or moly bullets but sucks dead bears with jacketed bullets.

Hang on to the WSF it will work good when you get an open gun. Well its on the fast side of slow but not bad.

Loading Rainers takes some skill not as easy as jacketed, I've seem many that can't load them, easy to spot with those oblong holes in the target when them babies go tumbling along. They just like soft lead bullets except for the .00000000000001 thick coating of copper. Get the bench rest out and give us some accuracy figures, fire a few groups with each powder at 25 and 50 yards.

Sorry this is what christmas shopping at walmart does to a man?

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: Use Tite Group and some better bullets. It is the most accurate powder I have used. You may want to try some lighter bullets in the 121-125 range. They shoot well in the M&P 4.25's. Clays is great for 45acp but not very good for 9mm. A good load is 4.0grains Tite Group with 121IFP Montana Golds at 1.140" OAL. Another good one is 3.8 grains Tite Group with 125 Zero JHP at 1.140"OAL. These are both tack drivers in a couple of M&P's I have shot them through at 25 yards. Thanks, Eric

[DerrickJ]

Out of my HK production gun, I have had great success with Power Pistol. I used the Hornady manual to work up, and found a great load that was very accurate. The only complaint I have with Power Pistol is the flash. Everything else was great from the metering, price and availability. Good stuff IMO.

[CeeZer]

If you shoot a lot and then some, think of low powder charges.

I ended up going with Universal and Clays for shooting Production with 124gr RNDS plated Berry's bullet.

I personally saved $7500 Federal Res Dawllas in past 5 years, making my own ammo.

[Grump]

What's the objective and the accuracy standard?

How much do you care about charge weight? In non-Magnum pistols, I believe that pinching pennies on powder is just silly.

I use lighter bullets but can recommend WW-231. If you value that "impossible to double-charge" stuff, Unique would be much better. 231 tends to be low-flash in all calibers, Unique flashes less with heavier charges (and more dull red, too), needs heavier charges than most, and fills the case.

Tried Power Pistol a long time ago and loved the velocities, but its flash in .357 was almost as big as 296, and more bluish than yellowish IIRC. Accuracy was good in that and 9mm and I think even the .380s, but that was a while ago. Try it out if you want speed and don't care about flash.

Speed and less flash and not "peaky" in pressure, Unique, though it isn't that popular any more. But you really can use it in almost anything. It might also generate good gas for a comp, but that's just an educated guess on my part. But that's not a factor as long as you keep that M&P stock.

But for me, unless I'm hosing big old IPSC targets at 15 yards and in and no headshots past 10 yards, I'll compromise ONE-- speed or flash or charge weight-- in exchange for accuracy.

[mcracco]

I'm at 4.4gr WSF with a 124gr MG CMJ.

[GOF]

I use 3.4 grains WSF with the Rainer 147 FP in my 4.25 inch stock barrel M&P 9mm. It chronos about 875 fps (need 851 for 125)... functions the gun perfectly and doesn't put brass in my face. Accuracy is about 3 inches at 25 yards. It is very clean burning and doesn't scum up the gun.

The 3.8 grain 231 load is also good, but WSF is cleaner. I've shot many thousands of the WSF/Rainer 147, and it got me to IDPA SSP Master

[Racefan]

"What's the objective and the accuracy standard?"

The objective is to try different powders with different burn rates to see if I can tell the difference. Also to check my reloading skills for consistency. I will use Federal box 115gr as a "standard", and chrono that to start.

"Loading Rainers takes some skill not as easy as jacketed, I've seem many that can't load them, easy to spot with those oblong holes in the target when them babies go tumbling along. They just like soft lead bullets except for the .00000000000001 thick coating of copper."

What is it about the Rainers that makes them difficult? I have pulled a few bullets after loading, and have seen no deformation of the bullet. Am I lucky, or good?

I did have tumbling with 3.2gr of Titegroup. I am pretty sure I let the powder hopper get too low, and it was dropping lighter than that.

Is one supposed to load these different than a jacketed bullet? Meaning adjustment to the amt of powder?

Thanks everyone!

[fltbed]

I’ve loaded 147 gr. Precision Delta FMJ and Star JHP at 1.140 with:

3.6 gr. Titegroup (130 PF very dense, easy to double charge)

4.0 gr. WSF (132 PF)

I never considered Clays suitable for the 9mm and I haven’t loaded Unique in over twenty years.

Hope this helps.

Jeff

Jeff, do you like one better than the other?

Thanks

Tom

Yes, I prefer WSF for jacketed bullets.

It was cleaner and after a few Bill Drill’s, the gun wasn’t quite as hot. Accuracy was the same with jacketed. I never could get anybody’s plated bullet to shoot as accurate as a true jacketed or lead (plain or coated) bullet.

Jeff

[glockdude1]

I got into reloading 3 months ago and drove myself crazy by switching to powders that someone highly recommended, only to notice very small differences in accuracy, recoil, etc....until one guy chewed me out and said to "Just pick one and start sending them down-range".....I took his advice and I am glad I did....I was waking up in the middle of the night thinking about what powder I should go with, and now I am getting better sleep...

As long as they go "BOOM", they work.....just pick the grains that feel best for you and go with it.....remember, too soft of load with hardly any recoil, feels good, but is not that accurate when shooting timed-courses....you want some recoil so the sights drop back down quickly for your next shot..

Have fun and good luck...

[apriav]

Anybody try Solo 1000, I bought some and havn't loaded any yet. I shoot 124 Montana Gold bullets.

[mike l m]

I use solo 1000 with a 124 fmj at 4.2 grs

Also 231 4.4 grs with a 124 fmj

Works fine.

Mike

[jcc7x7]

Big fan of WSF

I've loaded and competed with universal smokey real smokey. AA5 good all around just doesn't FEEL right in the pistol during competition.

use 3.6 with 147 lead and get 140 PF out of a SIG x-5 ,5" bbl real soft shooting but doesn't bring the gun back as qquik as the 125gr jacketed does.

Good shooting

[lablover]

Just did 3.8gr Titegroup, and 4.1 WSF. 100 each. Now how to load Clays!!??

Did you try that titegroup load. If not, I'd be careful. The Hodgdon site list 3.6 as a max load and you said you loaded 3.8. Where did you get that info from? Be safe

[grapemeister]

What's the objective and the accuracy standard?

How much do you care about charge weight? In non-Magnum pistols, I believe that pinching pennies on powder is just silly.

I use lighter bullets but can recommend WW-231. If you value that "impossible to double-charge" stuff, Unique would be much better. 231 tends to be low-flash in all calibers, Unique flashes less with heavier charges (and more dull red, too), needs heavier charges than most, and fills the case.

Tried Power Pistol a long time ago and loved the velocities, but its flash in .357 was almost as big as 296, and more bluish than yellowish IIRC. Accuracy was good in that and 9mm and I think even the .380s, but that was a while ago. Try it out if you want speed and don't care about flash.

Speed and less flash and not "peaky" in pressure, Unique, though it isn't that popular any more. But you really can use it in almost anything. It might also generate good gas for a comp, but that's just an educated guess on my part. But that's not a factor as long as you keep that M&P stock.

But for me, unless I'm hosing big old IPSC targets at 15 yards and in and no headshots past 10 yards, I'll compromise ONE-- speed or flash or charge weight-- in exchange for accuracy.

Don't agree. For those of us on a tight shooting budget, but shoot a lot, it pays to pinch pennies where you can, but as long as it works of course. For example, I would much prefer to use N320, but I use Titegroup with some cheap cast lead bullets. I'm just as accurate with that combo as I am with jacketed bullets. Of course, I have to clean the gun a hell of a lot more, but that's the price to pay if I want to shoot a lot.

[noexcuses]

from what I have read on here is that clays and heavy 9mm bullets is not a good combo. I use clays with 124gr jacketed fmj with 3.6gr clays at 1.125 c.o.a.l. out of a glock g35 with a loan wolf conversion barrel. Average 1055 fps for a PF of 130.8. Nice soft shooting load, Some have issues with clays in 9mm and accuracy, ymmv.

[Scootertheshooter]

l

[Beacon22]

from what I have read on here is that clays and heavy 9mm bullets is not a good combo. I use clays with 124gr jacketed fmj with 3.6gr clays at 1.125 c.o.a.l. out of a glock g35 with a loan wolf conversion barrel. Average 1055 fps for a PF of 130.8. Nice soft shooting load, Some have issues with clays in 9mm and accuracy, ymmv.

I have had good success and a soft shooting load with 3.2 of Universal Clays and 147 Zero JHP for a 9mm 1911.

[ttownracer]

Universal was very good with moly bullets for me. But clays NOT recommended for 9mm. Clays good for 40 & 45 though.

I like N320 for 9.