stardust tommy Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 how low do you go? is there a difference between a PPC gun, bianchi gun IPSC gun (faster reset time) my PPC gun has now a 6.6 lbs triggerpull with a Wolff mainspring and a "tuned" :-) reboundspring. I didn't had the time yet to adjust the mainspring so I ignite my federal primer reliable with less springtension. gr T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alecmc Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 (edited) I had it down to about 4.5 lbs, had 3 or 4 light strikes that match ( out of about 225 rounds ) , Back up to 5lbs and she seems to be running well. ( S&W 625 / USPSA) Edited October 25, 2012 by alecmc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueOvalBandit Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 (edited) 5-5.5lbs is all this amateur can manage. I did get it down to 4.25lb but that came with 25-30% light strikes with hand seated primers. 5-5.5lbs works without having to hand seat for me. Initially I had a hollowed out MIM hammer but switched to a apex cause it looked cleaner, not sure if going back to the MIM would get me lower. I used a miculek spring kit that I then bent. Edited October 25, 2012 by BlueOvalBandit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 I saw a surprising number of light hits and short strokes on the Revo Super Squad at Nationals this year. Stated simply, that's what happens when you take the spring tensions down too far. Personally, I hand-seat all my match ammo and keep my springs at a well-balanced 5.5 to 6 pounds with reasonably snappy rebound. And I do not have problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toothguy Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 how low do you go? is there a difference between a PPC gun, bianchi gun IPSC gun (faster reset time) my PPC gun has now a 6.6 lbs triggerpull with a Wolff mainspring and a "tuned" :-) reboundspring. I didn't had the time yet to adjust the mainspring so I ignite my federal primer reliable with less springtension. gr T My PPC gun is set about 6 pounds and my Bianchi gun about 6.75 pound trigger pull. The hammer spring tention is the same in both guns (sorry can't remember) the difference is the rebound spring. The Bianchi gun rebound spring is 11 pounds and the ppc gun is an 11 pound spring with 2 coils cut off so about 9 pounds. The Bianchi gun needs more rebound mainly for the 10 yard barracade string. If the rebound is to low it's easy to short stroke the trigger and there is no time to come around again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hopalong Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 Have some that run under six pounds 100% reliably (646s and 2 25-2) Have 625, and 25-2 that run 100% at 6 pounds but not less. SO I PUT THEM ALL @ 6 pounds !!!!! Hop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevolverJockey Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 (edited) Carmoney hit it right on the nose (yes this is a hammer mounted firing pin joke) - my USPSA 610 (hammer mounted) is perfectly balanced at around 6.5# and has not had a light strike in over 50,000 rounds. I don't have any problem with long or tight shots and don't feel like I will ever outrun the trigger. My 617 is a cool 8# I put so much trigger time in on it the 6.5# isn't even noticed. No disrespect to what Randy and many of the other fine smiths are doing, I have shot an Apex gun with a ~4# trigger and it is a work of art, but at some point you have to pay the piper - the amount of force the hammer can exert is directly proportional to the force it comes back with - yes, I know mass vs velocity and all that. Is 1# worth a light strike or short stroke at a bad point in a match? How fast can you reload to keep the count right or cycle through 5 rounds to get back to the one you short stroked? I take comfort knowing my 610 can make it 1,000 rounds without cleaning and it will do its part if I do mine. I make tons of mistakes in matches, but I know I have that reliable revolver thing covered. A wise man once said a revolver is like a full figured woman.... I am pretty sure they were taking about a revolver with a >5# trigger. Just my two cents. Lee Edited October 26, 2012 by Mitch_Rapp.45 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4mike Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 (edited) first one approx 3,7 (in 3,5 I has about 0,5% light strikes) second 4pound (because new ratchet running) both 625-8 in IPSC - shooting slowly so rebound spring is fast enough Edited October 26, 2012 by 4mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stardust tommy Posted October 26, 2012 Author Share Posted October 26, 2012 are the MIM hammers lighter than the older hammers? do you use bobbed hammers? is there something you can do to your mainspring? or the tensionscrew (relocation or something ?) to go lighter in pull without light strikes? I touhgt there was something they did but I can't remember. gr Tom an thanks for the answers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toothguy Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 Carmoney hit it right on the nose (yes this is a hammer mounted firing pin joke) - my USPSA 610 (hammer mounted) is perfectly balanced at around 6.5# and has not had a light strike in over 50,000 rounds. I don't have any problem with long or tight shots and don't feel like I will ever outrun the trigger. My 617 is a cool 8# I put so much trigger time in on it the 6.5# isn't even noticed. No disrespect to what Randy and many of the other fine smiths are doing, I have shot an Apex gun with a ~4# trigger and it is a work of art, but at some point you have to pay the piper - the amount of force the hammer can exert is directly proportional to the force it comes back with - yes, I know mass vs velocity and all that. Is 1# worth a light strike or short stroke at a bad point in a match? How fast can you reload to keep the count right or cycle through 5 rounds to get back to the one you short stroked? I take comfort knowing my 610 can make it 1,000 rounds without cleaning and it will do its part if I do mine. I make tons of mistakes in matches, but I know I have that reliable revolver thing covered. A wise man once said a revolver is like a full figured woman.... I am pretty sure they were taking about a revolver with a >5# trigger. Just my two cents. Lee I think that's a good way to look at it. When I started shooting local matches I thought my revolver was reliable I was shooting a 627 8 shot with a 5.75 or so trigger. The infrequent light hits did not bother me until I started a love-hate relationship with Bianchi. One light hit and you have screwed the pooch. For me the gun must be 100% reliable and a little more. I had Warren fit a 7 round cylinder to my 686 just in case. About a year or so ago I started working on my grip and trigger finger strength. I use the captains of crush grippers that I obtained from Manny Bragg and surgical tubing to work my trigger finger. I have found that now I have to be careful with most autos not to AD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toothguy Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 (edited) are the MIM hammers lighter than the older hammers? do you use bobbed hammers? is there something you can do to your mainspring? or the tensionscrew (relocation or something ?) to go lighter in pull without light strikes? I touhgt there was something they did but I can't remember. gr Tom an thanks for the answers! I have heard that you can get a slightly lighter hammer with the older hammer mounted firing pins but I have no idea if that is true, Toolguy or Carmoney would know. Carmonizing (bobbing) the hammer will help and an extended firing pin (Apex Tactical), also seating the primers very firmly. The trick is a balancing act between the rebound spring and the hammer spring. You need enough rebound depending on the sport PPC vs IPSC and you need enough reliability (hammer spring), 100% desired. Warren (Toolguy) does do some funky bends in the mainspring to give the most efficient reliability. Don't get to hung up on getting the lightest possible trigger. Increase your grip strength to compensate. I shook hands with Jerry Miculek at Bianchi and his grip is like a vise. Edited October 26, 2012 by toothguy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stardust tommy Posted October 26, 2012 Author Share Posted October 26, 2012 I know you can bend a standard mainspring (like the Wilson springkit) what is the difference with the micuklek spring? I don't want the lightest DA trigger, I've been shooting 15 years revolvers and this is the first year I shoot SA for some target practice. I've shot years PPC with a bobbed PPC gun and bowlingpins/fun with a bobbed model 10 with an aimpoint. I know haw to shoot DA (and won several Belgian champioenships) a time ago I've pulled the trigger of a Bianchi gun and the pull was verry light with 100% ignition... so I'm interrested in how it works. I've got the Miculek DVD and the kuhnhausen shopmanual and did a lot of mods and my triggerpull was getting better and better... because my old PPC revo is worn out I use it to practice some triggertuning (S&W686-2 with lots of play on the trigger and hammerpins etc...) gr Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toothguy Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 (edited) I know you can bend a standard mainspring (like the Wilson springkit) what is the difference with the micuklek spring? I don't want the lightest DA trigger, I've been shooting 15 years revolvers and this is the first year I shoot SA for some target practice. I've shot years PPC with a bobbed PPC gun and bowlingpins/fun with a bobbed model 10 with an aimpoint. I know haw to shoot DA (and won several Belgian champioenships) a time ago I've pulled the trigger of a Bianchi gun and the pull was verry light with 100% ignition... so I'm interrested in how it works. I've got the Miculek DVD and the kuhnhausen shopmanual and did a lot of mods and my triggerpull was getting better and better... because my old PPC revo is worn out I use it to practice some triggertuning (S&W686-2 with lots of play on the trigger and hammerpins etc...) gr Tom I have not seen the Wilson spring but I use and like the Miculek hammer spring. The spring is almost straight except for the very thin end that cradles the stirrup. I don't use the rebound spring in his kit, it's to heavy for me, I think it's around 14 pounds. I start with the 11 pound springs from Brownell's and adjust by clipping coils. Edited October 26, 2012 by toothguy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick1981 Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 I'm feel fine with the Wilson mainspring (no-rib) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueOvalBandit Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 I know you can bend a standard mainspring (like the Wilson springkit) what is the difference with the micuklek spring? I have both, for all intents and purposes they look identical. Miculek kit has a lighter rebound I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stardust tommy Posted October 27, 2012 Author Share Posted October 27, 2012 I believe the wilson rebound springs are 12, 13,14 lbs, they should work without further polishing etc on the parts Wolff sells 11lbs rebound springs maybe the miculek main with the Wolff 11 lbs is the way to go (with some polishing and adjusting the parts) is there a source to buy the miculek spring besides Brownells or Midway? gr T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevolverJockey Posted October 27, 2012 Share Posted October 27, 2012 I believe the wilson rebound springs are 12, 13,14 lbs, they should work without further polishing etc on the parts Wolff sells 11lbs rebound springs maybe the miculek main with the Wolff 11 lbs is the way to go (with some polishing and adjusting the parts) is there a source to buy the miculek spring besides Brownells or Midway? gr T Bang-inc.com Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pskys2 Posted October 27, 2012 Share Posted October 27, 2012 You need enough positive rebound force to smoothly reset the trigger, there should be no hitch. I had a primo Randy Lee 4.25 lbs action job and I just couldn't get used to it. It was so light I actually kept short stroking it. I likened it to my finger/brain thought it was a 1911 pull and I couldn't retrain myself to release it far enough. It had plenty of rebound force so that wasn't the problem. As it wore in I had a couple of misfires, and upped it to 5.5-6 lbs and couldn't be happier. But then I also have a M29 with a 6.5-7 lb action I just love too. So it comes down to individual tastes/preferences/skill set. Don't get caught up in the lowest, take different weights out and try them to see which actually works best for you. Then as you get more experience keep revisiting and experimenting. Hopefully you can find them, ask around, there are quite a few shooters who have Revolvers, even tricked out, that never use them and you may not even suspect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toothguy Posted October 27, 2012 Share Posted October 27, 2012 You need enough positive rebound force to smoothly reset the trigger, there should be no hitch. I had a primo Randy Lee 4.25 lbs action job and I just couldn't get used to it. It was so light I actually kept short stroking it. I likened it to my finger/brain thought it was a 1911 pull and I couldn't retrain myself to release it far enough. It had plenty of rebound force so that wasn't the problem. As it wore in I had a couple of misfires, and upped it to 5.5-6 lbs and couldn't be happier. But then I also have a M29 with a 6.5-7 lb action I just love too. So it comes down to individual tastes/preferences/skill set. Don't get caught up in the lowest, take different weights out and try them to see which actually works best for you. Then as you get more experience keep revisiting and experimenting. Hopefully you can find them, ask around, there are quite a few shooters who have Revolvers, even tricked out, that never use them and you may not even suspect. Dave, I remember trying the action on that gun out at Millcreek It was slick! Your Sunflower Classic ICORE match was a lot of fun when is the next one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pskys2 Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 You need enough positive rebound force to smoothly reset the trigger, there should be no hitch. I had a primo Randy Lee 4.25 lbs action job and I just couldn't get used to it. It was so light I actually kept short stroking it. I likened it to my finger/brain thought it was a 1911 pull and I couldn't retrain myself to release it far enough. It had plenty of rebound force so that wasn't the problem. As it wore in I had a couple of misfires, and upped it to 5.5-6 lbs and couldn't be happier. But then I also have a M29 with a 6.5-7 lb action I just love too. So it comes down to individual tastes/preferences/skill set. Don't get caught up in the lowest, take different weights out and try them to see which actually works best for you. Then as you get more experience keep revisiting and experimenting. Hopefully you can find them, ask around, there are quite a few shooters who have Revolvers, even tricked out, that never use them and you may not even suspect. Dave, I remember trying the action on that gun out at Millcreek It was slick! Your Sunflower Classic ICORE match was a lot of fun when is the next one? Unfortunately it might be quite a while before I get to a match. Let alone try to put one on. But then life is full of unexpected events. So have to wait and see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick1981 Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 On my revos 6 Lb it's a good compromise with 100% ingition (Federal only) in any temperature condition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toothguy Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 On my revos 6 Lb it's a good compromise with 100% ingition (Federal only) in any temperature condition. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4mike Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 ..........Wolff sells 11lbs rebound springs....... wolff made 9 lbs for taurus 85 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EEH Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 I have worked on a bunch of rev.and can not get one to really function under 6#,,and both my 625 work without hickup,,the best I've ever felt is one that mike C. did for a friend of mine,it was on a 627 not an ounce over 5# and worked everytime--so I you are a pro.I think you can really get them down to whatever you want..!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toothguy Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 (edited) Ok, I want a 2.5 lb trigger pull with very snappy return. Edited October 29, 2012 by toothguy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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