Aiden Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 I've been working towards getting a 3gun ready setup going, and aside from some magazine pouches, all that's left for me is to get an AR. I had set aside a decent amount of money to get a top tier 3gun ready rifle, but my car finally crapped out and I used the money for a down payment on a new car instead. So for now I'm being a little more budget minded. I've just sent the almighty "I'll take it" to someone for a PSA lower with an A2 stock and Magpul MIAD grip. I plan on swapping out the trigger down the road, but for now a stock trigger (Spike's) will do. I like A2 stocks, they're cheap, so I can use that for now. I haven't really had trouble with the length in the past, but it might end up being a tad too long. Whether or not I switch it out for something else remains to be seen. Now this leaves me with getting the upper, and I would appreciate some input. The key points: I plan on shooting irons for the foreseeable future. I wouldn't be opposed to having a F-marked triangle front sight (cheap and solid). Wondering if compatible with long tubes? I like the JP tubes, and I like the Troy TRX as well. Don't know which one, and was wondering if something cheaper (Nordic tube?) would work as well. I was planning on an 18" barrel with a rifle length gas system. I want a rail segment, or a QD socket, on the side. I want a forged upper receiver I had not decided on... chambering twist rate brake/flash hider, except that I would not be getting the larger profile ones like the JP brake stainless barrel or not brand (I assume my final list of options would dictate which company) Now what would be great is if there's a company out there that has all of this available as a prebuilt upper. I do not possess the tools to put together an upper receiver properly, so that'd be a plus. Something like this is appealing, however it is out of stock. http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-SS410-18-Rifle-Length-Upper-Receiver-Group-p/bcm-urg-18%20ss410%20vtrx13.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi-Power Jack Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 Aiden, there's a thread right now on Brian Enos Forum, re: selecting a rifle for 3-gun for beginners - you should start out by reading that - lots of good info in that one thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lead-Head Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 If you want a cheap irons guns. Get a GI profile 20" upper with a standard FS base. Switch out the standards HG with a rifle length FF tube. Just make sure you can leave your forged FS in place. Swich out to a NM front sight, and you are ready to rock. I would recommend getting a decent trigger from the get go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleepswithdogs Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 (edited) PSA, good to go. They are so well made, and sometimes can be had for $50. Barrel, for a budget build dpms mark 12. So many that have bought this barrel and can't remember a single complaint. The only caveat is it is just a bit on the heavy side, but were not talking pig. In addition it could be turned down to a lighter profile at some point if desired. Reported accuracy is very good. Throw in a composite handguard (AP custom) and you just about even out wt and ball to the light profile barrel and alum handguard. Twist: Most common twist in 3gun is 1:8 Wylde chamber. 18" SS Not that I'd feel bad about a Criterion chrome lined, have also heard good about them too, but the dpms is a Wilson barrel and a great buy IMO. Comp: You could save a bunch with a Miculec, or go Titan, Rolling Thunder, jp (not the "tank brake"). Any of these will give you outstanding recoil control. I would throw an adjustable gas block in (preferably with a locking mechanism) and perhaps a Tubbs flat wire spring. Upper: have to say, the Vltor is outstanding, not cheap, but outstanding. if a round ever lets go, its usually a mistake with a load, wrong powder, wrong gram weight, etc, and a little more beef sure can help. I believe... this upper will add accuracy to any build by resisting twist/flex. It is known that removing the carry handle weakens the upper, and IMO, a bit extra beef for a flat top is a requirement. I'm just so impressed with art of construction of this upper. There are many that are less expensive, but IMO, you will find few better made, and this I think a reasonable place to spend a little more. Pre-built upper... Check out Firebird Precision. Good people and they will build you one any way you want. These people are big supporters of the sport, field a very competitive team (Clan of the flaming chicken ). That's the way to get a good upper built, small company who competes in the sport. Good to go. That is my opinion anyway, and worth perhaps a little less than you paid for it, but there it is. Tar Edited September 13, 2012 by Sleepswithdogs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMC Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 If you plan on using real iron sights (not a dot or Priz) then you want a longer barrel, 20" at a min. and mount the front sight just behind the comp. Radius is your friend with irons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleepswithdogs Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 If you plan on using real iron sights (not a dot or Priz) then you want a longer barrel, 20" at a min. and mount the front sight just behind the comp. Radius is your friend with irons. Nice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aiden Posted September 13, 2012 Author Share Posted September 13, 2012 (edited) Aiden, there's a thread right now on Brian Enos Forum, re: selecting a rifle for 3-gun for beginners - you should start out by reading that - lots of good info in that one thread. In the process of working my way through it, thanks. If you want a cheap irons guns. Get a GI profile 20" upper with a standard FS base. Switch out the standards HG with a rifle length FF tube. Just make sure you can leave your forged FS in place. Swich out to a NM front sight, and you are ready to rock. I would recommend getting a decent trigger from the get go. I've handled a couple 20", and I just like 18" more. Advice still stands though. As far as decent trigger, I figure I either use the Spike's, or I get a JP trigger (tried out Jard, JP, and Geissele 3g, and I liked JP the most). The only middle ground I can think of would be getting an RRA NM 2stage trigger, and for the price, might as well get the JP. But putting a JP trigger in now would mean going over my total budget, or taking away money from the upper budget. edit: checking the price on the JP single stage, it was less expensive than I remember. That is a possibility, depending on what I end up spending on the upper. For reference, my upper budget is around 700-800, keeping the total build budget at around 1k (180 for the lower). 1.1k is the hard line budget for the rifle and sights, and I aim to get as much of a rifle as possible for that price. In the future, perhaps I will get a JP rifle like I originally planned, but realistically 1.1 is all I can justify at the moment. Edited September 13, 2012 by Aiden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aiden Posted September 13, 2012 Author Share Posted September 13, 2012 Bleh, by the time I hit reply, more replies are posted. Work keeps pulling me away. If you plan on using real iron sights (not a dot or Priz) then you want a longer barrel, 20" at a min. and mount the front sight just behind the comp. Radius is your friend with irons. Hmmm. Like I said in my last reply, I didn't really care for how the 20" barreled ARs I've handled felt, hence my decision to go with 18". But they weren't set up with A2 stocks and the like, more along the lines of varmint rifles with collapsible stocks, and the NRA-oriented rifle I had handled was weighted considerably. Guess 20" isn't completely off the table then. A JP front sight that would clamp to the barrel runs about 120 bucks. So I could have a low profile gas block instead and no worries about the tube. Mind sharing the details on your rifle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aiden Posted September 13, 2012 Author Share Posted September 13, 2012 ... That is my opinion anyway, and worth perhaps a little less than you paid for it, but there it is. Tar Sorry, missed your post, duly noted and looking into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMC Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 (edited) Mind sharing the details on your rifle? Its a parts rifle I built for this years Nationals from stuff I've had laying around for some time Sun Devil Billet upper and lower set - SMMG prize table from 2008 Old style JP Handguard , pre V-Tac JP trigger Mil-Spec bolt lightenend by me JP Gas block Standard A2 front sight base with set screw and I convered the bayo-lug so its now a clamp. Its bushed with shim stock. Stock front sight replaced with Sightlink .050 FO front Rear sight is an old carry handle cut back w/NM aperature Barrel is a Model-1 HBar that was turned down to 5/8" under the handguard Surefire Comp Best I can do with my eyes 200 yard, 53grn VMax's, 2-1/2" group Edited September 13, 2012 by TMC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aiden Posted September 13, 2012 Author Share Posted September 13, 2012 Nice shooting! So would you say it's relatively easy to set the A2 sight forward to the brake? I'm not entirely versed in barrel profiles and diameters, were there any issues getting it to fit properly? I quite like what you've done with your rifle, it's pretty similar to what I had imagined for mine. Now if I could just finish something vaguely resembling that under budget, I'd be good to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMC Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 So would you say it's relatively easy to set the A2 sight forward to the brake? I'm not entirely versed in barrel profiles and diameters, were there any issues getting it to fit properly? Yes, "relatively easy" Here's the process I took. Measure the inside dia. of the front sight base, measure the end of barrel where it will mount. Mine was 2 different sizes. Divide the differece in half and buy some shim stock, I got brass at the hardware store. I milled off the "lugs" on each side of the bayo lug, drilled a hole through it and split it all the way through the front ring of the base with a hacksaw. The rear ring was already tapped on the bottom between the ears with the sling ring was attached, I don't now why but I guess I lucked out othewide I would have drilled and tapped it. I worked the front sight in place with the shim stock between it and the barrel, and snugged it down with a cap screw and nylock. Went to the range and shot at 50 to make sure it was clocked right or close enough so I could get a good zero with the windage at the rear. When I had that done I dimpled the barrel at the hole in the rear ring and tightened a screw into so it wouldn't twist. All I had at the time was a cap screw and I was going to put a nice small set screw in it but never got around to doing it SIMPLE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Middle Man Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 Palmetto State uppers and lowers are manufactured by FN. CDNN has (last I looked) A3 forged uppers for 80 bucks that are manufactured by Cerro Forge (one of the top OEM AR upper and lower makers). I'm fairly certain that Fulton Armory makes and/or sells an A2 front sight base that clamps or attaches with set screws for longer sight radius set up rifles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aiden Posted September 14, 2012 Author Share Posted September 14, 2012 Yes, "relatively easy" ... SIMPLE Mmmhmmm, simple. Maybe I'll save that for a rainy Saturday... and borrow my buddy's workshop... As long as I'm in his workshop, I guess I could very well assemble an upper. I've done a little AR work; assembled a couple lowers and installed a couple freefloats, but I had a proper gunsmith's workbench and access to his tools. So building it myself aside, do you think Firebird Precision or any other similar shops would do this work within my price range? I could probably source parts and just need to pay for labor, but I don't know of anyone in the area who would assemble it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bladewurk Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 I just used a standard Colt Gov. Profile A2 barrel 1/7 twist and shaved the front sight into a minimized lopro block. Then mounted an Armalite front like this http://www.armalite.com/ItemForm.aspx?item=EU0240MPKIT right behind the comp like TMC. Pretty cheap it was $40 and a beercan shim. So far so good I am gonna chop the carry handle and try Limited shortcourses.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aiden Posted September 14, 2012 Author Share Posted September 14, 2012 I just used a standard Colt Gov. Profile A2 barrel 1/7 twist and shaved the front sight into a minimized lopro block. Then mounted an Armalite front like this http://www.armalite.com/ItemForm.aspx?item=EU0240MPKIT right behind the comp like TMC. Pretty cheap it was $40 and a beercan shim. So far so good I am gonna chop the carry handle and try Limited shortcourses.. How secure is it? No worries about it being knocked around at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
george995 Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 ^^^ I would also like to know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aiden Posted September 24, 2012 Author Share Posted September 24, 2012 Decided to take it slow with the build. Going to grab parts as they go on sale, or used, and try and assemble a good upper. I'm thinking 20inch now. Also going to look into how I'll go about affixing the front sight. Will also go ahead and purchase a JP trigger to put in that lower. If I don't complete the build, oh well, with my level of experience (zero) it won't make too much of a difference. Thanks everyone for the input! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.E. Kelley Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 This is another way to go for long sight radius. 20" BBL. with a Lipsky clamp on sight base and a Lyman 93 Globe sight (uses interchangeable inserts) Rear is a DPMS clamp on A2 style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aiden Posted September 24, 2012 Author Share Posted September 24, 2012 Are there any tips to aligning the sights when clamping them to the barrel? I feel like I'd need a collimator in order to do it properly. Or just eyeball it, shoot it, adjust, rinse and repeat till good? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.E. Kelley Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 Are there any tips to aligning the sights when clamping them to the barrel? I feel like I'd need a collimator in order to do it properly. Or just eyeball it, shoot it, adjust, rinse and repeat till good? I rough mine in with a level on the upper and on the front sight base, but it still comes down to shoot and tweak until you got it right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dskinsler83 Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 Check out DPMS 3g1 upper at MidwayUsa. It's 3gun ready I hear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aiden Posted September 25, 2012 Author Share Posted September 25, 2012 (edited) I rough mine in with a level on the upper and on the front sight base, but it still comes down to shoot and tweak until you got it right. Hrm, okay. Thanks. Also, nice rifle! edit for clarity Edited September 25, 2012 by Aiden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dskinsler83 Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 Come with bolt carrier group mark 12 barrel miculek muzzle break Tac latch on charging handle free floated jp vtac hand guard and is rifle length tube and gas system Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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