Hitting a Bump In The Road

[uscbigdawg]

So, after doing some tweaking on the gun, being rededicated to shooting pistol again, I'm having fun again shooting fast, etc., etc., etc.

I'm doing much better on stages. I'm moving better on the stages. Seeing the stages and targets better, etc.

My goal this year was to make Master by June which I extended to July (and now looks like August). Other than choking on classifiers from time to time (a hell of a lot less than I used to) things are going pretty well, except that I'm dropping a lot of points on stages. Not so much with D's, but just a lot of A/C's and 2C's.

Part of me thinks that I've just been so obsessed with time on the stage, that I'm shooting too fast, but I really don't want to reign the speed in so much to where I'm hurting the overall performance.

So, to my pears I make a plea. Suggestions please!!!!

Thanks,

Rich

[diehli]

See more faster. You ain't seeing what you need to, so you will either have to slow down until you're seeing what you need to, or see more.

[38supPat]

Ya gotta practice the accuracy part.

Start with Bill drills. Begin at 7m then keep pushing it back. Bill drills at 50m are a good challenge. Accept nothing but A's

Group shooting off a bench is practically mandatory. Set up at 25m to start then move it back to 50m (I like 100m)

Pay attention to how you pull the trigger.

Pay attention to the sight movement.

See what it takes to place an accurate shot WHERE YOU WANT IT.

[Loves2Shoot]

Use your front sight as a speedoometer and get "going fast" out of your vocabulary.

When I even think about going fast I am slower than if I just read the sights. My hits are a ton better, I am smoother, and my will to get to the next target makes me faster than when I "try" to go fast.

Time means squat if you are dropping too many points, because the time it takes to shoot a good shot and a marginal shot is about .02-.04. Plus you are more consistant (what being master versus A is about) and you hesistate less so you spend less time getting through a course.

Sure you can get away with hopers and point shooting, but when you figure it out, there is no reason to go faster than your sights tell you. If you focus on experienceing what you see more and less on how you are doing it you might just have a breakthrough. Then again, I might just be full of cr@p.

[uscbigdawg]

front sight

What's that?

It's a weird dilemma. I can shoot accurately and know what I'm supposed to see, but fail to execute it at the speed that I'm going at. Definitely a case of not seeing fast enough (thanks Cullen).

Pat - I'll definitely have to shoot more Bill Drills. I was talking with Max Michel once and he was telling me that he nails Bill Drills at 25 yards (I wanna say the time is under 4 seconds, but can't remember and don't quote me on it) and is working on them at 50.

Another good drill might be to use say 2-3 targets starting at 7 yards and stepping back in the same manner (so I can incorporate transitions too).

Too, I think I might have to start doing the TGO plate rack challenge thing. That'll be fun. I've added shooting the Steel Challenge stages with a local club that does it every month to the "training regimen in hopes of improving accuracy (Pendulum SUCKS!).

Thanks all. Keep 'em coming.

Rich

[38supPat]

Pat - I'll definitely have to shoot more Bill Drills. I was talking with Max Michel once and he was telling me that he nails Bill Drills at 25 yards (I wanna say the time is under 4 seconds, but can't remember and don't quote me on it) and is working on them at 50.

I can see Max doing well under 4 sec at 25 yds. My par time at 50 was 6 sec. Don't remember 25 ...I tend to do 7, 10 then right out to 50, I love long range shooting

[Loves2Shoot]

front sight

What's that?

It's a weird dilemma. I can shoot accurately and know what I'm supposed to see, but fail to execute it at the speed that I'm going at. Definitely a case of not seeing fast enough (thanks Cullen).

Pat - I'll definitely have to shoot more Bill Drills. I was talking with Max Michel once and he was telling me that he nails Bill Drills at 25 yards (I wanna say the time is under 4 seconds, but can't remember and don't quote me on it) and is working on them at 50.

Another good drill might be to use say 2-3 targets starting at 7 yards and stepping back in the same manner (so I can incorporate transitions too).

Too, I think I might have to start doing the TGO plate rack challenge thing. That'll be fun. I've added shooting the Steel Challenge stages with a local club that does it every month to the "training regimen in hopes of improving accuracy (Pendulum SUCKS!).

Thanks all. Keep 'em coming.

Rich

A drill you can try, I got to M within 2 months of figuring out I was going fast in the wrong places.

Try shooting 3 targets 1 meter apart at 7 yards. 1 second for the draw .2 for all the splits/transitions = 2 seconds for the whole drill everytime (limited gun - .18 splits/transitions open gun.)

The goal isn't to do it faster than 2 seconds, but to hit the splits/transitions at .2 seconds and put the bullets in the center of the A zone. You can mix-up left to right, right to left, center-right-left, and center-left-right.

A world class shooter had me do this and it helped a ton, especially on partials. You don't need to go as fast as you think you do to go even faster than you are going.

For me it was very simple, very hard, and VERY enlightening.

[mcoliver]

It's a weird dilemma. I can shoot accurately and know what I'm supposed to see, but fail to execute it at the speed that I'm going at. Definitely a case of not seeing fast enough (thanks Cullen).

Maybe you need to go even faster so when you go back to your old speed it becomes slow enough to be accurate?

[Flexmoney]

Rich,

It's not about speed. It is about vision. And, it is about what you ask your body/mind to deliver.

Have you read the Lanny Bassham book (Steve Anderson has it on his website if you need a copy.)

[PaulW]

All the above are all great ideas.

The only thing I would ad is visualisation. When I struggled with the same problems it was because my mind saw the "WHOLE" target. So when my sights crossed the target it was acceptible to my minds eye and I would pull the trigger. Now I work a lot on visualizing just the A-box. Place that picture in your mind and visualize the holes appearing in the target. Sounds like you are just about to break through.

Oh and one more thing. TJ taught me this one. When shooting a target shot 3/4 high on the target. This will keep your rounds in the upper part of the A-box, whereas most people when they miss the A-box they miss low. Aiming center mass and pulling the shoot you'll be in the c-zone, aiming a little higher and pulling the shot, now your still in the a-box.

[uscbigdawg]

Have you read the Lanny Bassham book

Kyle - It's sitting in the office. I'm still trying to finish a Ziediker (sp) book on the AR. It's a tough read, 'cause he's SOOOO detailed.

The only thing I would ad is visualisation. When I struggled with the same problems it was because my mind saw the "WHOLE" target. So when my sights crossed the target it was acceptible to my minds eye and I would pull the trigger. Now I work a lot on visualizing just the A-box. Place that picture in your mind and visualize the holes appearing in the target. Sounds like you are just about to break through.

Paul - You hit in on the head. I went to the range last night out of frustration/intellectual curiosity. I am visualizing stages great (i.e. seeing engagements, memorizing target position and location, without really having to think about it). But, as you suggested, I was seeing the whole target. When I set up, simpler stages, I did again what you suggested, and strictly focused on the uppper half of the A-zone. It was much harder, but the results were WAAAAAY cooler. I know that I'm close and it's just that last little pieces to the puzzle.

I'm redoing my practice routine tonight to incorporate all of the suggestions here.

You guys are awesome!

Thanks,

Rich

[Nate]

Make sure your left (or weak) hand is doing its job. When I start throwing a lot of C's and D's I usually need to firm-up my support hand. Nate

[Alex9x19]

 

I can see Max doing well under 4 sec at 25 yds. My par time at 50 was 6 sec. Don't remember 25 ...I tend to do 7, 10 then right out to 50, I love long range shooting

And was it shooting off a bench in 6 seconds all A's?

What about 100 yards?

[Ron Ankeny]

And was it shooting off a bench in 6 seconds all A's?

What about 100 yards?

I would imagine a 100 yards would take longer and the groups would open up to the C zone. FWIW, shooting with precision is no big deal for folks who know how. In fact, if you can't pretty much hold the A box at fifty you would suck at Bullseye and PPC.

[38supPat]

 

I can see Max doing well under 4 sec at 25 yds. My par time at 50 was 6 sec. Don't remember 25 ...I tend to do 7, 10 then right out to 50, I love long range shooting

And was it shooting off a bench in 6 seconds all A's?

What about 100 yards?

No, thats a full Bill drill. Draw, fire 6 rounds at a full IPSC Metric target at 50m. Its a standard exercise.

At 100m I use a bench and just shoot groups, no time. Best group was with my Millenium Custom built .38 super (built by John DeAngelo) 3.5" at 100m I still have that target here somewhere it was a standard letter size manila envelope 8 1/2"/11"

[blackdragon]

I have had good luck, when my accuracy has strayed, going to one hole drills.Set up three targets 2' apart 10YDS. From the ready position shoot one shot into the perferated A on the target all three. Go back to the ready and try to put your shot into the same hole. Speed up until your group gets to be about 4" or so.When you get bored with this just move your target further out. Remmber as With martial arts"People like to practice the forms or drills that they are good at, not the ones that will make them better"

ADIOS

Ivan

SCS Vegas

[Alex9x19]

No, thats a full Bill drill. Draw, fire 6 rounds at a full IPSC Metric target at 50m. Its a standard exercise.

At 100m I use a bench and just shoot groups, no time. Best group was with my Millenium Custom built .38 super (built by John DeAngelo) 3.5" at 100m I still have that target here somewhere it was a standard letter size manila envelope 8 1/2"/11"

I had 3' groups at 100 yards from a bench with Glock34 and cz-75, but that was 3 shot groups.

I didn't try Bill Drill further than 20 meters, I will try 50 yards next time.

In theory it should be 2 sec first shot + 0.8 - 0.9 sec splits. But that's theory.

[38supPat]

If you get the draw quicker, theres more time for shooting, 1.4 -1.5 sec draw 0.9 splits

[Alex9x19]

Agree, I'm slow even on close targets, about 1.1 sec.

Guess need daily dry fire practice.

[benos]

The first three posts nailed it.

Training is what you do. Goals are what you hope for.

be

[carinab]

Accuracy versus speed....My accuracy is the same, my speed has changed for the worse so I need to ask for help. After reading "the book" I believe that I mostly shoot with a type 4 focus. I see the where the front site is when the shot breaks (and a small amount of lift) and my peripheral is already picking up the next target. I'm not following the front site in an arc as it goes to the next target and I don't bring the next target into focus. For lack of a better term, I have global awareness - nothing sharply in focus, the next target still fuzzy - until the sites move onto the next target. Then I focus on the front site again. This is with three targets four feet apart at 15 yards.

After reading about type 3 focus and hearing from the free universe that to improve speed, you have to shift your eyes to the next target then focus back on the front site, I decided to work on it. Five weeks later, on wide transitions the type 3 focus does deliver a faster split by .05, mostly because I'm not overswinging anymore. However on the three targets (four foot spread) my splits are .07 slower from target to target. I seem to take a long time to look at the target and then return my focus back to the front site. I believe I'm having a learning curve.

So here is a question, do you have type 3 focus no matter what the target spread? In other words, even if the targets are side by side, are you focusing on the next target and shifting back to the site? On average, how long did it take to learn to type 3 focus? Did you experience an initial slow down in your times? I know long term, I'll be better off learning the type 3 focus but I'm tempted to wait until after the season...the "don't change something right before a big match" rule.

[Paladin]

..I have a new post on I think 'Tips for Improvement'.. it is titled 'Awareness of Progress', see if it can provide any help with setting objectives and reducing hitches in your shooting.

Do the mindset tests in it and you will see how your progress is affected by your mindset, plan or lack of and being focused on the wrong things such as going fast.

The only way to know if you are going fast is after you have gone fast (or slow)- so to think about it whilst shooting takes you out of the shooting.