olp73 Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 My barrel died on me the other day. After, to be exact, 5240 rounds bullets are "keyholeing" at 40 yards. The barrel is a 17" Rainier SS UltraMatch 223 Wylde chamber, after what I am told, made from a Shilen blank. I am surprised and I was hoping for twice the mileage before rebarreling. I am a gentle cleaner and try to the best of my ability to take care of my guns. Here in Norway we shoot a lot of Barnaul ammo (or similar) because anything else is twice the price. That is if you do not reload of course, which I don’t. There are a zillion posts about how long a barrel should last, here and other places, on the net. To justify this one I ask: Is there something about Shilen barrels that make them last less than other similar SS barrels? I have noticed that the rifling in my barrel seams shallower than other barrels I have looked though. It has always been like this also when new. When you look down the barrel with the naked eye I can not see any changes of any kind. No throat erosion or damage to the crown. Even thou it doesn’t shot to former glory it does stabilize everything else than the Russian steel jacked ammo. Could it be that Barnaul bullets are under sized and that the barrel still has some life left in it? Maybe I should start reload after all? Could there be other reasons that I have not thought about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskapopo Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 Try different ammo before you jump to judgement. Perhaps you got some undersized bullets in that lot. Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olp73 Posted July 20, 2012 Author Share Posted July 20, 2012 Try different ammo before you jump to judgement. Perhaps you got some undersized bullets in that lot. Pat I did. As long as it is 55gr Barnaul steel it is "keyholeing" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskapopo Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 Try different ammo before you jump to judgement. Perhaps you got some undersized bullets in that lot. Pat I did. As long as it is 55gr Barnaul steel it is "keyholeing" Sounds like an ammo issue. Try some non steel bullets/cases and I bet your barrel will do just fine. Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saibot Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 I agree, try new ammo. Also check that your crown hasn't accumulated a bunch of carbon build up under your comp/brake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbletap_ed Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 (edited) I agree, try new ammo. Also check that your crown hasn't accumulated a bunch of carbon build up under your comp/brake. Agree check the crown Edited July 20, 2012 by dbletap_ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StealthyBlagga Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 May also be worth cleaning with copper remover (Sweets or similar) - something jacket fouling can be enough to cause problems. Oh, and for sure try a decent brand of ammo... I never trust Russian ammo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olp73 Posted July 22, 2012 Author Share Posted July 22, 2012 Try different ammo before you jump to judgement. Perhaps you got some undersized bullets in that lot. Pat I did. As long as it is 55gr Barnaul steel it is "keyholeing" Sounds like an ammo issue. Try some non steel bullets/cases and I bet your barrel will do just fine. Pat Like I say none steel jacked quality ammo does work fine, but the steel stuff use to shot ok. That is not the case anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saibot Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 Try different ammo before you jump to judgement. Perhaps you got some undersized bullets in that lot. Pat I did. As long as it is 55gr Barnaul steel it is "keyholeing" Sounds like an ammo issue. Try some non steel bullets/cases and I bet your barrel will do just fine. Pat Like I say none steel jacked quality ammo does work fine, but the steel stuff use to shot ok. That is not the case anymore. I think we understand that the steel stuff used to shoot fine, but in an effort to discover the root cause or your barrel issue we're suggesting to try something else, like a box of XM193. I think we're all interested in the results of that test, then we can move forward in the troubleshooting workflow. Please shoot some XM193 and get back to us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Religious Shooter Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 Do they have XM193 in Norway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leemoe83 Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 Deffinetly try different ammo, some barrels just hate certain styles of bullets, I have a .223 barrel (varmint gun) that will ocassionally keyhole flat based bullets, different brands to, but will shoot .75 MOA with 69 g. sierras and varget all day, no problems with Nosler 60 gr. ballistic tips or sierra 55 gr gameking boatails either. I think it's probably a muzzle crown issue but haven't really gotten around to messing with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redial Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 After 30 years of Service Rifle shooting, I'm not afraid to hit the throat periodically with JB, RemClean or other such mild abrasives and have "resurrected" more than one "proclaimed dead" barrel with a proper scrubbing. That said, 5200 rounds is far beyond where we usually rebarrel an upper which we'll use at 300 or 600 yard stages. If better ammo and a good scrubbing won't bring it back, it's probably time for a new tube. YMMV, Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
promod1385 Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Your running crap ammo through a quality barrel and wondering why your not getting better results? It makes little to no sense. I would scrub the throat as described above. Is the ammo your using a laquer case? If so there maybe build up somewhere. Have you scrubbed the bolt face? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpipe95 Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 My barrel died on me the other day. After, to be exact, 5240 rounds bullets are "keyholeing" at 40 yards. The barrel is a 17" Rainier SS UltraMatch 223 Wylde chamber, after what I am told, made from a Shilen blank. I am surprised and I was hoping for twice the mileage before rebarreling. I am a gentle cleaner and try to the best of my ability to take care of my guns. Here in Norway we shoot a lot of Barnaul ammo (or similar) because anything else is twice the price. That is if you do not reload of course, which I don’t. There are a zillion posts about how long a barrel should last, here and other places, on the net. To justify this one I ask: Is there something about Shilen barrels that make them last less than other similar SS barrels? I have noticed that the rifling in my barrel seams shallower than other barrels I have looked though. It has always been like this also when new. When you look down the barrel with the naked eye I can not see any changes of any kind. No throat erosion or damage to the crown. Even thou it doesn’t shot to former glory it does stabilize everything else than the Russian steel jacked ammo. Could it be that Barnaul bullets are under sized and that the barrel still has some life left in it? Maybe I should start reload after all? Could there be other reasons that I have not thought about? It is copper fouled (badly). A local guy just went through this with the same junk ass ammo. They make some copper solvents that are a foam and change color when as they dissolve the copper. Get some and use it! spray it in let is soak patch out. Do this until it no longer changes color. Have fun and take better care of your gear if you plan on running crap ammo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montrala Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Try different ammo before you jump to judgement. Perhaps you got some undersized bullets in that lot. Pat I did. As long as it is 55gr Barnaul steel it is "keyholeing" Barnaul makes lot of ammo from time to time that like to keyhole. We've been trough this here in Poland. Also your round count is good time for serious copper removal. I was sure I shot out my HK MR223 barrel in 6000 rounds (some of them Barnaul). It started to keyhole with 55gr, then with 62gr, working only on 75gr and 77gr. But when I got decent copper remover (MPro7), some good polymer brushes, handful of patches and gave it some 2 hours of attention, it came back to same performance as new one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CocoBolo Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 (edited) Steel jacketed bullets did in my Bushmaster (in this case Monarch made by Bernal and sold at Academy Stores in Texas) in 3,000 rounds. You saved enough money on cheap ammo to pay for a new barrel. Point is you have to either spend the money on good ammo or be willing to pay the price for using the bargain ammo. Edited July 23, 2012 by CocoBolo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleepswithdogs Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Steel jacketed bullets did in my Bushmaster (in this case Monarch made by Bernal and sold at Academy Stores in Texas) in 3,000 rounds. You saved enough money on cheap ammo to pay for a new barrel. Point is you have to either spend the money on good ammo or be willing to pay the price for using the bargain ammo. olp73 check for pm. Tar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskapopo Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Try different ammo before you jump to judgement. Perhaps you got some undersized bullets in that lot. Pat I did. As long as it is 55gr Barnaul steel it is "keyholeing" Sounds like an ammo issue. Try some non steel bullets/cases and I bet your barrel will do just fine. Pat Like I say none steel jacked quality ammo does work fine, but the steel stuff use to shot ok. That is not the case anymore. I get that but before you waste money on a new barrel try different ammo (good ammo) and see if that cures it. I bet it will and you will be out a lot less money. Also like others have said clean the thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olp73 Posted July 25, 2012 Author Share Posted July 25, 2012 Try different ammo before you jump to judgement. Perhaps you got some undersized bullets in that lot. Pat I did. As long as it is 55gr Barnaul steel it is "keyholeing" Sounds like an ammo issue. Try some non steel bullets/cases and I bet your barrel will do just fine. Pat Like I say none steel jacked quality ammo does work fine, but the steel stuff use to shot ok. That is not the case anymore. I get that but before you waste money on a new barrel try different ammo (good ammo) and see if that cures it. I bet it will and you will be out a lot less money. Also like others have said clean the thing. I have already tested it with good ammo and like you guys say. It does shoot ok. That’s what I meant with: "it stabilizes everything else", but that doesn’t really matter since a barrel that needs ammo a dollar a bang is worthless to me anyway, since I can not afford to use it much. Anyway. There is an interesting turn of events here. Last night I got it inspected by a fellow that knows his stuff. This was merely to confirm something that I noticed myself. There is almost no rifling left in the last 4" of the barrel. From the chamber it looks ok, but when you inspect it from the muzzle there is a different story. I even tried to feel the rifling with a straightened brass paperclip and there is nothing (almost) there. The interesting thing is why the barrel is more worn at the muzzle end. I thought it where supposed to be the other way around? Barrels get worn from the throat right? Can it be that the protection from the cobber plaiting wears off and you get steel to steel contact the last inches before the bullet leaves the barrel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskapopo Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 (edited) Steel bullets are bad for barrels and hence why I don't use them at all. How long is the barrel perhaps lop 4 inches off and have a carbine. Pat Edited July 28, 2012 by Alaskapopo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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