Advice for faster reloading press

[ramairthree]

Hello.

I learned to reload about 15 years ago on a Lee single stage press for .38/357.

(not counting small batches of Lee Loader by hand)

Soon after I went to a 3 hole turret press doing 9mm, 10mm, .45.

To speed up I got a great deal on a 4 hole auto index turret.

I also did the 4 hole upgrade to my 3 hole.

I have multiple sets for .223, .45, 10mm, 9mm with the auto disk and die plates for quick swaps.

But...

I just want to get some ammo knocked out faster.

I do not use the presses for primers.

I take out the auto index bar, decap and size a batch after tumbling,

then put the index rod in powder die, seat, factory crimp (really sizing the whole case vs. a crimp- gives me such great case gauge gos and function vs. not doing that step)

I have tried primer step on the press, and end up not being that fast. Overall, when all is said and done, I get a better case inspection and more reliable priming and faster overall doing the priming seperate.

I have looked at the LoadMaster the the Pro1000.

Don't think I am going to go the LoadMaster route.

For what I load the most of by far (9mm),

I am thinking of doing decap on my single stage,

prime by hand,

then put the cases in the tube,

then do powder, seat, crimp.

I have searched and some do a similar process.

It also looks like it would be quick to swap from 9mm to .40 on this set up.

Everyone else I know says to just get a Dillon.

For those that have looked at a fast Lee based process,

or have mastered how to make priming fast on the Turret,

I would appreciate any advice.

[JD45]

You already own some good tools to switch between calibers quickly, and they will always be useful.

But if you load a lot of one pistol caliber, do yourself a favor and get a Square Deal B. Used ones are not hard to find.

Loading at 9 min. per 100 makes life easier.

[Dirty Rod]

If you want to crank out ammo faster then I think you need to pick a progressive and forget about the whole single stage priming process. Just the fact that you are processing each case twice is going to cut your time in half and as long as the press is set up correctly there is no advantage in priming on a single stage press over a progressive.

Edited July 11, 2012 by Dirty Rod

[Retread1911]

If you can swing the cost the drilling 650 would be light speed compared to what you have.

There is a great page on Brian's site about what press is right for you.

[Hi-Power Jack]

if you load a lot of one pistol caliber, do yourself a favor and get a Square Deal B.

Loading at 9 min. per 100 makes life easier.

I agree, but wish I could load 600 rounds/hour with my Square Deal

It is a great alternative to what you're doing, but I count on loading 250 rounds

per hour with my SD.

[Chet]

If you have the means going to a 650 with a case feeder is far superior to what you plan to do. I upgraded from a SDB through my local distributor at the time. SDB is an excellent choice if you want to run a dedicated press. There always seem to be a few on Ebay available at good prices.

[ramairthree]

Thank you for the info.

What I do now is on a Lee 4 hole auto index turret press.

I bring home brass from the range, throw it into the tumbler,

and put those cases in a box.

So,

I remove the auto index rod,

and decap and size-

it takes me 9 minutes to do 100 cases and it gives me a chance to eyeball each case.

Then it takes 3 minutes for me to on average to clean primer pocket,

and chamfer the really crimped brass (many crimped brass just primes fine, some I sort of tell by the look will jam up with out a little prep)

Then, on average, 15.5 minutes to use a hand primer. Some of the cases will be set aside because I can tell by feel the primer pocket is too crimped to take a primer without jamming, crushing, etc. This also gives me a closer look/inspection of each case.

Then I put auto index rod back in, fill the auto disc with powder, throw and weigh a couple of charges to check,

then start loading.

put the case on, pull to expand mouth/charge with powder,

grab a bullet, pull to seat, pull to factory die crimp,

remove bullet, pull to skip decapper die, and start over.

I check the first few with a chamber gauge, and calipers,

and check one to two out of ten as I go.

This amounts to 29.5 minutes on average.

If I am doing a bigger lot of 150, 200, etc. I shave a little time off because of only one round of filling hopper, test throws, weighing, etc.

So-

and this will make many of you cringe,

figure basically an hour for 100 rounds- this accounts for a dropped case, sweeping up some primers, a jam in the primer tool, etc.

The old lee presses have a VERY slow system to prime on the press.

You fill a little arm with one primer at a time, and push it under the down stroke of the case holder.

Primer in lots by hand is actually faster.

When I look at a full progressive press, I see how much time I would save just priming on the press.

The tube systems especially vs. the lee tray system.

But-

how much time do you lose and rounds do you lose when the primer gets crushed, jammed on a heavy crimped case, etc?

My inspection of cases totally happens during my decapping/sizing and hand tool priming process.

This has led me to think the least expensive way to get faster would be to buy a Lee Pro 1000.

I would decap/size on my turret without the index on, and hand tool prime like I am doing.

I would have the powder/expander die, then seat die, then factory crimp die.

With one round per pull vs. four pulls per round, I am thinking I would cut my 29.5 minute portion of the time in half easy. Maybe even be able to charge/seat/crimp 250 or so rounds in half an hour.

Right now say it takes me 5 hours from tumbler to 500 loaded rounds.

This would put me at under three hours total for 500 rounds.

I have all the dies, some of the three hole plates from before I updated a turret, and either auto disk or the old die mounted perfect powder measures on all but one dedicated (I think the perfect powder measure die mounted has been replaced by the pro auto disk, which would come with a lee pro 1000 set, I could also get it in .40 as it comes with a set of dies, and not have to adjust my 10mm/40 die set- shell plate should be the same for 40,10, and 9mm, and I would need shell plates for .45 and 223.)

overall about 200$ delivered to go this route.

Heck, with the case feeding for 9mm and 40 (which I load the most of) and not even considering a bullet feeder option, I might even be at about 2.5 hours or under for 500 rounds.

If I go square deal, it will only be dedicated for one caliber basically, and use my old stuff for all other.

550 I don't like the manual index.

650 / casefeeder would be lightening fast, but expensive to switch calibers.

I did talk to one guy that switched from 3 hole non index lee classic press to Hornady.

He got a Hornady AP.

It took all his dies. He needed to buy bushings for rapid caliber changes. He did not have a casefeeder which he said in his opinion a case feeder AP is better and faster and cheaper than a case feeder 650, but that maxed out AP is still a far cry from the 1050.

I forget how many stations he said it could have, but he used the Hornady powder die and charger and the Hornady expander with one caliber he got hornady dies for, but for the other calibers he just put in his lee dies (no one piece swap like the lee, but each die went into a bushing that was a quick swap into the press with all settings intact as long as you bought more bushings- and he went decapper/sizer die, primer, powder/expand with the lee auto pro disk on the lee die, then seat, then lee crimp)

This would put me with a lot of equipment I can still use like die sets, powder throwers, etc. at about 90 minutes for 500 rounds (per him if he had a case feeder, more like 2 hours without the case feeder), with quick caliber change overs, and less expensive caliber swaps than dillon.

This would be about a 430 delivered option without a case feeder.

I think a shellplate would make it 480 in order to start using, with about 50 bucks per caliber swap for another shell plate.

Anyways,

I can find a ton of information on Lee and Dillon.

If anyone has experience using a Hornady AP with lee dies/Lee Powder discs,

please let me know.

Thank you.

[skalls]

I reload about 300 357mag rounds an hour on my LNL without a case feeder. I'm around 400 an hour with 38 special. I haven't had any issues with the priming system on the LNL. There's just no way you can match the speed a progressive press can do with a turret press.

On my Lee Classic Turret press using both the auto indexing rod and priming system on the press I was never consistently above 150 rounds/hour.

I don't think you can go wrong with a LNL, Dillon 550 or Square Deal B (assuming you only want to reload pistol calibers).

[Graham Smith]

There are probably a couple hundred threads that cover this exact same question. In fact there is an open one going right now. I really suggest that you spend an hour reading existing threads then jump in with any questions they have not answered.

[jmorris]

But... I just want to get some ammo knocked out faster.

I do not use the presses for primers.

Every time to do an operation seperate from a single pull of a handle per completed round you multiply the time it takes you to load vs a progressive. So in the time it takes you size and deprime 100 cases, progressive users are loading 100 rounds. As you hand prime them, progressive users are loading another 100. Powder charging, another hundred. Once you get done seating and crimping you'll have 100 rounds while a progressive user will have 500 rounds. That is how you get ammo knocked out faster.

100/9 min is not too bad on an SD. On my bullet fed 1050 it takes 2.5min/100.

Edited July 12, 2012 by jmorris

[98sr20ve]

But...

I just want to get some ammo knocked out faster.

I do not use the presses for primers.

I take out the auto index bar, decap and size a batch after tumbling,

then put the index rod in powder die, seat, factory crimp (really sizing the whole case vs. a crimp- gives me such great case gauge gos and function vs. not doing that step)

I have tried primer step on the press, and end up not being that fast. Overall, when all is said and done, I get a better case inspection and more reliable priming and faster overall doing the priming seperate.

I have looked at the LoadMaster the the Pro1000.

Don't think I am going to go the LoadMaster route.

For what I load the most of by far (9mm),

I am thinking of doing decap on my single stage,

prime by hand,

then put the cases in the tube,

then do powder, seat, crimp.

I have searched and some do a similar process.

It also looks like it would be quick to swap from 9mm to .40 on this set up.

Everyone else I know says to just get a Dillon.

For those that have looked at a fast Lee based process,

or have mastered how to make priming fast on the Turret,

I would appreciate any advice.

So I have no experiance with the NON-Classic turret. But I can say the classic turret primes on the press very well. There is a little bit of a learning curve to how you press the button and you may have to shim it up with a washer. It's pretty simple really and with that done (if needed) you can load 100 rds in 22 mins. Seldom having a primer not go in the cup perfectly.

BUT

If you want faster and reliable just get a SDB or a 550. I have owned the LM, LnL, 550 and 650. Dillon makes the best progressive of all I tried. I use Lee Dies almost exclusively on all my presses. It's not a big deal.

Edited July 12, 2012 by 98sr20ve

[ramairthree]

There are probably a couple hundred threads that cover this exact same question. In fact there is an open one going right now. I really suggest that you spend an hour reading existing threads then jump in with any questions they have not answered.

Which exact same question would that be?

I have spent well over one hour reading threads about this.

Specific questions about lee dies with lee powder disc on a LNL, the

etc. were not clear.

A link to info would have been helpful. Or informing me that there is a third party device to knock completed rounds out of the turret press, etc. would have been helpful.

Your post was simply done to be snide.

If you have no specific information to offer,

find another thread to troll.

for those that have provided information,

thank you.

[deputygene]

I would go with a pro 1000. Prime on the press, small primers are not as problematic as some say. Get rid of the chain on the powder feeder, go with the spring kit. To switch from 9mm to 40 is simply a matter of pulling the shell holder from the top, if you have a spare with your other dies, just drop it in. Case feeder doesn't have to be adjusted between those calibers, just unscrew the powder dispencer, put in the auto disc you want and your loading again. I have a pro 1000 set up just for 9mm/40. I load mostly 40, but do switch to 9 once in awhile. I have a loadmaster also, but don't like or use it very much. If your using the Lee turrent, then you are already somewhat familiar with the pro 1000. I know they get bashed a lot, but I have loaded on mine for more than 10 years. Love the simple, ingenious case feeder. Plus, you already have the dies. Only problem is it is a 3 stage press. The factory crimp die will have to be done seperately.

[ramairthree]

Thank you for the info.

I thought I would need different case tubes for .40 and 9mm per what I read on the Lee part numbers.

Does .40 work fine with small pistol tube, or does 9mm work fine with large tube? That would be great not to have to switch between rounds, those are the two I load the most for.

Also, if I go with Federal small pistol primer brass in .45, that would that also be a simple shell holder plate swap?

I hear what you say about three vs four station.

I think if Lee built a "PRO 1400" on the 4-station model,

it would suck up 90% of the people that would have bought a Loadmaster.

Thanks again.

[CocoBolo]

Anyways,

I can find a ton of information on Lee and Dillon.

If anyone has experience using a Hornady AP with lee dies/Lee Powder discs,

please let me know.

Thank you.

I've loaded about 60k round on a LNL AP, fine machine, loads about anything. No need for powder disc, the LNL powder measure is great, much better than the Dillon. I have both I can say that. The LNL porduces reliable consistent ammo round after round.

Without a case feeder or bullet feeder you can easily run 300 rounds of 9 or 40 an hour. With a case feeder 500 is easy more with a bullet feeder.

I started with Lee Dies, I made the mistake of buying some Hornady New Deminsion Dies, after than the Lee's had to go, sorry they just didn't measure up. Dillon dies are good as well but Hornady is better. Both kick Lee to the curb.

I know nothing about Lee reloading presses, I skipped that horror and went staight to the LNL.

[deputygene]

Not sure on the tubes, 45 acp will stick in mine, but 9 and 40 work fine. So, I guess they are small. I know I don't switch on mine.

I didn't know about small pistol primer 45, except 45gap. Yeah, if using small pistol, a shellholder swap to your caliber should be all that's needed. If you need to load 45acp, instead of buying what I would guess to be expensive brass, I would buy a completely different shell plate carrier assembly set up for large pistol primers. Then instead of having to take one apart, and replace the different pieces, just unbolt from the ram and swap out. Or buy another press, they are that cheap. Just looked, on sale at midway now for $156.

A four station press would be great. However, shooting 40 out of a Glock barrel, I have no problems with the crimp die on the press. If you were worried, you could load your practice ammo through the press and use, then run what you want to use as match ammo through the FCD sepreately. The pro 1000 is a simple, inexpensive press. Some have trouble and never get them to run right. Me and a couple buddies of mine bought ours in the late 90's for cowboy action. Have I never had a jam? Of course not, but I have been happy with the service I have gotten from mine.

Edited July 15, 2012 by deputygene

[ramairthree]

Thanks again deputy.

You know how some people put every single round they make for defense ammo or competition ammo through a case gauge? The Lee FCD is literally that case gauge for me.

I would run it as a separate step if I had to.

That's what has me thinking on the 1000, I already have dies, some 3 hole plates....

I already do my case inspection will hand priming

I could run primed brass through the casefeeder,

or use the priming station on the press,

and make my son run all the rounds through a FCD.

Heck,

when all is said and done,

with my son doing all depriming and hand priming

I could run powder, seat, FCD on the press.

Or, run the press using the primers,

and make him run all the finished ammo through a FCD.

either way, I make ammo with one pull vs. three or four on the turret!

Thanks for the sale tip.

Also, the cheapest US made, brass cased reloadable, boxer primed non corrosive .45 ammo I can find is Federal Champion. When buying new, I would pay the couple dollars more for Winchester White Box.

I was mad when I found out it had small primer pockets.

Well, that will work for me.

[Poppa Bear]

Shim up the primer feed on the Classic Turret and it will feed very consistently. I can load around 150 rounds per hour on mine when everything is staged correctly. Grab and insert case, work ram while thumb pushes primer feed, grab bullet as turret cycles through powder, set bullet and grab next case as turret cycles twice, remove completed cartridge as I insert new case, drop completed cartridge into box as ram goes up, repeat. When all the parts are set in the right position I do not need to look as I grab parts and things can flow nicely.

That said I now load my 40's on a 550 and following the same parts distributed properly procedure I now load 400+ rounds an hour.

Edited July 16, 2012 by Poppa Bear

[deputygene]

Ramairthree, which factory 45 round used small primers? Sure it wasn't 45 gap? I just wasn't aware there was a 45 acp that used small primers.

If you size, deprime, and prime off of the press, you coul feed primed cases to the powder feeder in station 1, then seat and then run through fcd. You would definately have to do away with the chain on the powder thrower set up like that.

When I was loading 45 long colt for cowboy action, we were using a 160gr rnfp, with that little bitty cheaten gamey b@stard load, I had to use a factory crimp die to seat in the crimp groove. Otherwise the cases would bulge at the end and wouldn't run in the rifle well. It wasn't that big a deal to run them on a single stage press to use the lee factory crimp die.

Edited July 16, 2012 by deputygene

[Dirty Rod]

Ramairthree, which factory 45 round used small primers? Sure it wasn't 45 gap? I just wasn't aware there was a 45 acp that used small primers.

Federal, Speer, Blazer, and that other ATK companies have been making small primer .45 brass for over a year. Lots of folks believe that eventually all .45 brass will be small primer since it will allow ammo companies to eventually stock just one primer size for handgun ammo.

[deputygene]

I did not know thast, thanks dirty rod for the info.

[jmorris]

You know how some people put every single round they make for defense ammo or competition ammo through a case gauge? The Lee FCD is literally that case gauge for me.

. The only problem with that is when the case has a problem with the base or rim where your FCD doesn't touch.

Federal, Speer, Blazer, and that other ATK companies have been making small primer .45 brass for over a year.

Winchester NT small primer brass has been around for at least 6 years.

[jmorris]

Your dies obviously don't size the part of the case that gets yanked by the extractor then hit by the ejector as it sits in the shell holder. Also the radius on the mouth of the die doesn't allow sizing all the way down to the shell holder. It is problems in this area that is the reason behind machines like the casepro and scharch roll sizers. For some cases a push through sizer can help the base but not the extractor grove.

As you can see from the photo below the "drop test" in your barrel also doesn't cut it. As there can be a problem with the base of the case that you cannot detect with out a casegauge or when it causes a malfunction entering the breech face.

[ramairthree]

Thanks, I see what you mean.

I do spot check about every tenth round and once in a while get one that must be glocked.

I do try to avoid those cases if it notice it first.

Since using a LFCD I almost never get a case gauge failure, let alone FTF by a factor of ten from before.

So, I went and brought home a Pro 1000.

I went through various set ups over the past few days.

1) Standard deprime/size, prime one press, expand/powder, seat.

The priming system is not bad at all, or at least not as bad as people make it out to be.

BUT- my main pistol loading is 9mm, and my main rifle .223. I end up with a TON of crimped primer pockets.

And I found a jam on the progressive press is quite the pain in the but.

With the .223, I need to check length and need to end up trimming a good quarter or more of the cases, and that is after depriming.

I honestly don't know how people can load tons of unsorted or prepped brass so fast with no issues. Since I need to avoid jamming, and have to interrupt after depriming to measure and trim, I am going to stick with depriming on my turret and hand tool priming. (or at least my son, and one of my daugthers I have been training, is going to be doing that)

2) Hand primed cases (I don't swage or prep them- about 8 out of ten will prime with the hand primer, I can feel the couple that are going to jam and toss them in the brass scrap pile)

I tried to do expand/powder, seat, FCD as set up. Well, I can't reach my left hand over to station two to put on the bullet. Decided that was not going to work unless I got a bullet feeder, but I like to see my powder level as i put on the bullet. So I gave up on that.

3)NO depriming die in, just the empty whole, then powder/expand station two, seat three. Then take out the bullets and run them through the FCD on my turret. Not really saving time this way like I wanted.

4) revistited number two. but put handle on left. Powder/expand at station one. Can see powder level and put on bullet with my right hand at station two just fine. Gets factory crimp on three and done.

This is way faster than my auto index turret for me because- same steps of deprime/size a lot, hand prime that lot,

then between the case feeder and one handle pull my ammo gets cranked out way faster than it does on the autoindex turret.

I will give the bullet feeder a try, I will be able to see the powder fine. It will let me put handle back on right.

The small pistol cases feeder tubes do NOT work with .40. It goes down the tube, but not the metal part at the bottom. I was hoping not to have to switch that out.

I will see if 9mm feeds ok with the large pistol case feeder tubes you need for .40, .357, etc.

The shell holder will be fine for 9mm and 40, but needs to be changed for .45 and for .38/357, and for .223.

The bullet feeder would be ok for 9mm an .38/357, but I would need to change it for 40, .45, etc.

My turret presses turn out dead on seat length again and again. My length is not perfect everytime due to a round nose being flattened a touch, etc. not the press.

The 1000 is not as one. If I want 1.150, I could chase 1.155 to 1.145 a ton and 1.160 to 1.140 every now and then.

When all is said and done, I would not mind at all a Dillon or LnL, etc.

But this is saving me some time.

For the awesome reload speeds some have on that other equipment,

I still do not understand two things-

are there no crimped primers in your 9mm or 223?

Are you counting your sort them out or swage them times in your reload time?

Short the big buck trimmer in your after deprime/size station-

how are you checking case length after depriming/sizing?

If you are not doing it, I see how you are fast.

But if you are, is that counted in your reload rates?

Ok, that about sums it up for me.

Laugh because I am still depriming/sizing in one step, and hand priming in another step,

but am still happy because my powder/seat/crimp process is going much faster.

[jmorris]

For the awesome reload speeds some have on that other equipment, I still do not understand two things-are there no crimped primers in your 9mm or 223? Are you counting your sort them out or swage them times in your reload time?

Depends on the machine, a 1050 swages while you load.