GrumpyOne Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 there is no rule saying that (no offense meant!) you can't be stupid during a course of fire. Thank God!!! Yeah, I know! Do you realize how many times I would have been DQ'ed by now? I don't think I'd have ever finished a match! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted June 22, 2012 Author Share Posted June 22, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kamikaze1a Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 IIRC, the RO let him go fetch the right mags and reshoot...lucky him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 IIRC, the RO let him go fetch the right mags and reshoot...lucky him! Not lucky, bad RO. While it may have only been a lv 1 match, and it may have been the shooters first match, it was still wrong of the RO. After the start signal, there are only a few reasons why an RO should let a shooter re-shoot the COF. Stupidity, brain fart, call it what you will, ain't one of them. IMO, the RO did the.shooter and the rest of the squad a disservice by letting him re-shoot. Take yer lumps, learn from them, and move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kamikaze1a Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 I agree and lucky for him, you weren't the RO... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ac4wordplay Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 IIRC, the RO let him go fetch the right mags and reshoot...lucky him! Not lucky, bad RO. While it may have only been a lv 1 match, and it may have been the shooters first match, it was still wrong of the RO. After the start signal, there are only a few reasons why an RO should let a shooter re-shoot the COF. Stupidity, brain fart, call it what you will, ain't one of them. IMO, the RO did the.shooter and the rest of the squad a disservice by letting him re-shoot. Take yer lumps, learn from them, and move on. And collect some of that (9mm) ammo and run them through chrono! I wonder if 9mm, fired through a .40 barrel will make minor PF... Scored as shot, the competitor probably zeroed the stage... probably got bumped to sub-minor PF for the match - so shooting for no score... Tough penalty for such a silly mistake. Ouch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OUshooter Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 (edited) As the RO what rule do I site that keeps the shooter from continuing to use ammo that has had 2 squibs during a match? 10.5.15.1 says I can't DQ the shooter, but I'm not sure where to look for guidance. Is 5.5.5 all I have to work with? If the shooter claims they switched to a different batch of ammo, but they have another squib do I hand out a 10.6.1? Edited September 12, 2012 by OUshooter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydiver Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 All you can do as make them do is withdraw that ammunition and try a different batch. As the rule says, you can't DQ them for having ammunition that is experiencing squibs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OUshooter Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 For all our talk about safety first that seems like a dangerous game to play. I take no joy in DQing a shooter, but I take much less in making a hot shot run to the ER to dig shrapnel out of my and the shooters face. What sucks is if I suspect the shooter is going back to the truck to get "another batch" and returning with the same ammo I won't allow someone else to RO them. I will do it and make sure the clipboard RO is well behind us. I just can't seem to wrap my head around being able to DQ a shooter for sweeping their own hand with a slide locked gun during a reload, but not for dangerous ammo that could cause bodily harm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydiver Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Just like the other calls we have to make as RO's, we have to "know" rather than just "suspect". If you decide to issue a 10.6.1 DQ, you have to know that they lied to you about swapping ammunition, and not having really done so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OUshooter Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Just like the other calls we have to make as RO's, we have to "know" rather than just "suspect". If you decide to issue a 10.6.1 DQ, you have to know that they lied to you about swapping ammunition, and not having really done so. I hear what you are saying and fully support your position. I just hate, but will if required, jumping on a live grenade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 What sucks is if I suspect the shooter is going back to the truck to get "another batch" and returning with the same ammo I won't allow someone else to RO them. I will do it and make sure the clipboard RO is well behind us. There's nothing to prevent you or the RM from accompanying the shooter to their vehicle. Or from requesting to hold their original batch of ammo until the match is over/the competitor leaves.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OUshooter Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 What sucks is if I suspect the shooter is going back to the truck to get "another batch" and returning with the same ammo I won't allow someone else to RO them. I will do it and make sure the clipboard RO is well behind us. There's nothing to prevent you or the RM from accompanying the shooter to their vehicle. Or from requesting to hold their original batch of ammo until the match is over/the competitor leaves.... That's a good suggestion, much Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Got Juice? Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 (edited) As both a shooter AND an RO, i have had squibs. It happens no matter how fussy you are with ammunition and reloading. My personal rule is that ammunition is unsafe if they have more than 1 squib for 4 stages (shooting 4 stages and having a squib in each stage). And if you do that, you MUST inform the CRO for the following stages with that competitors number so they can be watched. Then the Onus is on the CRO to deem the ammunition in question unfit for use and disqualified from competition. Then it is up to the competitor to secure another source of ammunition to complete the match. And submit his ammunition to the range master to hold until after the competition. It's fair, keeps everyone safe, and ensures no bias. Edited September 29, 2012 by Got Juice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 As both a shooter AND an RO, i have had squibs. It happens no matter how fussy you are with ammunition and reloading. I haven't reloaded much -- maybe approaching 100,000 rounds after 12 years or so -- but I'm still awaiting my first squib. So, I'll disagree that they "have to happen." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OUshooter Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 As both a shooter AND an RO, i have had squibs. It happens no matter how fussy you are with ammunition and reloading. I haven't reloaded much -- maybe approaching 100,000 rounds after 12 years or so -- but I'm still awaiting my first squib. So, I'll disagree that they "have to happen." I've not loaded Nic's # of rounds, but I have to agreed. To imply that handloading is less safe than "factory" loads, and some % of squibs is ok doesn't fly with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Got Juice? Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 As both a shooter AND an RO, i have had squibs. It happens no matter how fussy you are with ammunition and reloading. I haven't reloaded much -- maybe approaching 100,000 rounds after 12 years or so -- but I'm still awaiting my first squib. So, I'll disagree that they "have to happen." Believe it or not.... I had 4 Squibs i. The same day just last week. Which for me is a year's supply! I sourced the issue to some wierd buildup of gunk on my powder funnel. Most likely happened when cleaning the press. Get a little grease ir oil contamination, and yes it can happen. Congrats on your 100,000 squib free rounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin c Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 (edited) 200K loaded. and only a half dozen squibs, one I deliberately loaded without powder just to know what it would sound like, the others in an experiment with powder contaminated with lube, to see what would happen. Edited September 29, 2012 by kevin c Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 40k-50k I've reloaded and no squibs. I think you have the addage about DQ's and squibs mixed up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Got Juice? Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 (edited) 40k-50k I've reloaded and no squibs. I think you have the addage about DQ's and squibs mixed up. Not one bit. I have never had a squib in my precision 6.8, nor my .204 Ruger. I've had 3 in my 12 gauge. but my 6750grabber was just Plain worn out towards the end.(dont ask round count, it's so large as to be irrelevant) .40S&W I have had probably 7 squibs in 3 years of reloading. And most shooters I know experience a squib or two per year. It happens. You guys not loading any are just extra special at reloading I guess Edited September 30, 2012 by Got Juice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 You guys not loading any are just extra special at reloading I guess Possibly precise, and paying attention? :D Reloading at the GM level? Equipment matters -- it's harder I think to have a problem on a 1050. I do notice the movement of the press and powder bar, and primer rod dropping on each stroke. I do pause every 100 rounds, as I refill components to make sure things are still tight, and haven't rattled loose..... Than again, I'm a nurse, so I'm a little OCD by profession.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Got Juice? Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 You guys not loading any are just extra special at reloading I guess Possibly precise, and paying attention? :D Reloading at the GM level? Equipment matters -- it's harder I think to have a problem on a 1050. I do notice the movement of the press and powder bar, and primer rod dropping on each stroke. I do pause every 100 rounds, as I refill components to make sure things are still tight, and haven't rattled loose..... Than again, I'm a nurse, so I'm a little OCD by profession.... Lucky I think. Yes I am very fussy with my ammunition. I don't like 'junk' in my guns. They are too expensive to break OCD is an understatement. I am a quantitative estimator. blueprints and reading/understanding specs are my life. And yes, I have both the Super1050 and an RL550. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mactiger Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 As both a shooter AND an RO, i have had squibs. It happens no matter how fussy you are with ammunition and reloading. My personal rule is that ammunition is unsafe if they have more than 1 squib for 4 stages (shooting 4 stages and having a squib in each stage). And if you do that, you MUST inform the CRO for the following stages with that competitors number so they can be watched. Then the Onus is on the CRO to deem the ammunition in question unfit for use and disqualified from competition. Then it is up to the competitor to secure another source of ammunition to complete the match. And submit his ammunition to the range master to hold until after the competition. It's fair, keeps everyone safe, and ensures no bias. This is generally twice as many squibs as are acceptable. The general rule is two in a match, and you are done with that ammo. Troy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin c Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 200K loaded. and only a half dozen squibs, one I deliberately loaded without powder just to know what it would sound like, the others in an experiment with powder contaminated with lube, to see what would happen. I should add that all those rounds were loaded on a four station autoindexing press (SDB). The only funked up rounds making it into the bin (being advanced in the shell plate w/o having the prior station run properly) have been failure to crimp, which won't pass gauging, and failure to place a bullet, which ends up liberally sprinkling powder over my loaded rounds. Both errors get missed in the fourth station, which is hard for me to see. It's easy to inspect the round as it advances into the seating (third) station, and I try to be conscientious in doing so. I guess that's why I've only had the other type of cockups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micah Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 I love it when Troy says the same things that I've been doing at matches! Mos def 2 squibs and your ammo is out. This is an easy one to frame for the competitor too, as you are saving their gun and face from assured destruction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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