retarmyaviator Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 5.1.7.3 states that the replacement handgun and its appropritate ammunition must be chronographed per Rule 5.6. I may already have the answer but wanted to clarify my thoughts on it. If a competitor is using a M&P Pro 9mm and due to a malfuction replaces it with a M&P full size of the same caliber it and its ammunition would still have to be chronographed again. As a competitor is it allowed to chronograph both pistols at the same time to eliminate any confusion later in the match should a failure occur? Or is it best to just wait and hope neither break? Both pistols using the same magazines and ammunition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjb45 Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 At WSSSC, my gun jammed. I had already been through the chrono. We called the MD and he allowed a substitute gun to be used. But I had to go and have that gun chrono'd also. After I fixed my original gun, I resumed shooting it for the rest of the match. Basically, you only chrono the gun you will be actually shooting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junkie Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 I thought we put ammo over the chrono and it is not the gun? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 I thought we put ammo over the chrono and it is not the gun? that's how I've been doing it, however, if i throw the gun over the chrono, it might be easier to make pf. With a typical 39 oz gun, (17,062 grains), you only need to throw it at 10 fps to reliably make major, and it otta knock down steel pretty reliably..... at least up close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Anderson Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 I thought we put ammo over the chrono and it is not the gun? that's how I've been doing it, however, if i throw the gun over the chrono, it might be easier to make pf. With a typical 39 oz gun, (17,062 grains), you only need to throw it at 10 fps to reliably make major, and it otta knock down steel pretty reliably..... at least up close. Yeah but that 50 yard target makes for a tough throw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 I thought we put ammo over the chrono and it is not the gun? that's how I've been doing it, however, if i throw the gun over the chrono, it might be easier to make pf. With a typical 39 oz gun, (17,062 grains), you only need to throw it at 10 fps to reliably make major, and it otta knock down steel pretty reliably..... at least up close. Yeah but that 50 yard target makes for a tough throw And you would only do it once or twice before dislocating your shoulder trying to hit that steel.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aztecdriver Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 (edited) I thought we put ammo over the chrono and it is not the gun? Duh. Never mind. Edited June 2, 2012 by aztecdriver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 If I'm RMing a match, we'll chrono the gun/ammo that competitors are actually shooting in the match. When a substitution is approved, we'll worry about chronoing the replacement gun/ammo combination.... We might do a courtesy chrono after the match is over..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
splashdown Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 There's not enough time in a match to chrono two guns per competitor. Just chrono the primary gun. Not many guns need to be traded out during a match. I'd guess no more than a handfull at an Area match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 There's not enough time in a match to chrono two guns per competitor. Just chrono the primary gun. Not many guns need to be traded out during a match. I'd guess no more than a handfull at an Area match. I approved one switch at the Mid-Atlantic Sectional last year -- after a competitor's gun doubled, while its ammo was being chronographed..... No need to worry about it until it happens.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbbean Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 I approved one switch at the Mid-Atlantic Sectional last year -- after a competitor's gun doubled, while its ammo was being chronographed..... No need to worry about it until it happens.... If your gun is going to develop hammer follow at a match, that's the best time for it to happen! BB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 We thought it was a fluke, moved down range of the chrono to test the gun, and it happened again. The shooter and I simultaneously asked about a backup gun..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 At a local level one match today....A shooters gun became (or was from the start!) a bolt action 1911. Bang! Rack. Bang! Rack. Very first stage, first shooter. He finished that stage like that. Second stage, he had a replacement 1911 (his backup gun).....Bang!Bang! BangBang! Bang! BangBangBang! Gun doubled, then tripled. The first double, we might have attributed to a light trigger....The triple, no way (BTW, his splits on the triple were .14 seconds each! ). He decided to retire that one as well (*gee, ya think?). We scored the stage as shot, with all appropriate misses and FTE's, and since he was/is one of our RO's, we decided that he could go to a third gun....His Glock, and finish shooting in Production, for no score. Right move? We had fun with him for the rest of the day about it too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 I don't see anything that precludes a move to a third gun. Now, if he was shooting SS, and needed to move to a Glock, then a move to Open for score would have been the correct move.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 I don't see anything that precludes a move to a third gun. Now, if he was shooting SS, and needed to move to a Glock, then a move to Open for score would have been the correct move.... Read closer...He was shooting SS major with the 1st gun, SS major with the 2nd gun, declared SS major at match start....went to a 9mm Glock....So, I guess he could have went to open, but since he normally shoots SS or PD, PD seemed logical, and his match was already hosed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoMiE Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 I don't see anything that precludes a move to a third gun. Now, if he was shooting SS, and needed to move to a Glock, then a move to Open for score would have been the correct move.... Read closer...He was shooting SS major with the 1st gun, SS major with the 2nd gun, declared SS major at match start....went to a 9mm Glock....So, I guess he could have went to open, but since he normally shoots SS or PD, PD seemed logical, and his match was already hosed... Open minor then would be the call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 I don't see anything that precludes a move to a third gun. Now, if he was shooting SS, and needed to move to a Glock, then a move to Open for score would have been the correct move.... Read closer...He was shooting SS major with the 1st gun, SS major with the 2nd gun, declared SS major at match start....went to a 9mm Glock....So, I guess he could have went to open, but since he normally shoots SS or PD, PD seemed logical, and his match was already hosed... Perhaps you should consider including all relevant information in your initial post -- since the part in bold was not included..... I had no idea which division the shooter was competing in -- I knew only that he shot a bolt action 1911. Open minor, for score would have been the correct call once he moved to the Glock; I have no issues with Production for fun at a Level 1, and as match director might have even entered his results in EZWS for all stages, scored the match and e-mailed him the results for his own edification, before removing him from the match and publishing the official scores.... That way he'd get to see how he stacked up against the other competitors..... Third option -- he withdraws from the match in SS, and sees if he can reenter in Production as an additional gun, thereby getting to shoot all stages with the Glock..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 I don't see anything that precludes a move to a third gun. Now, if he was shooting SS, and needed to move to a Glock, then a move to Open for score would have been the correct move.... Read closer...He was shooting SS major with the 1st gun, SS major with the 2nd gun, declared SS major at match start....went to a 9mm Glock....So, I guess he could have went to open, but since he normally shoots SS or PD, PD seemed logical, and his match was already hosed... Perhaps you should consider including all relevant information in your initial post -- since the part in bold was not included..... I had no idea which division the shooter was competing in -- I knew only that he shot a bolt action 1911. Open minor, for score would have been the correct call once he moved to the Glock; I have no issues with Production for fun at a Level 1, and as match director might have even entered his results in EZWS for all stages, scored the match and e-mailed him the results for his own edification, before removing him from the match and publishing the official scores.... That way he'd get to see how he stacked up against the other competitors..... Third option -- he withdraws from the match in SS, and sees if he can reenter in Production as an additional gun, thereby getting to shoot all stages with the Glock..... Yes, I should have included that info....Just thought to myself, single stack 1911, what other division would he be shooting? I know, I know....Limited 10, possibly Limited and Open.... But the question is: Moving from SS major to a Production gun minor, even though his actual ammo for the PD gun was surely minor, as he regularly shoots PD, he would still be moved to Open since his original declaration of SS major could not be met? No way to move to another suitable division voluntarily instead of open? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 I don't see anything that precludes a move to a third gun. Now, if he was shooting SS, and needed to move to a Glock, then a move to Open for score would have been the correct move.... Read closer...He was shooting SS major with the 1st gun, SS major with the 2nd gun, declared SS major at match start....went to a 9mm Glock....So, I guess he could have went to open, but since he normally shoots SS or PD, PD seemed logical, and his match was already hosed... Perhaps you should consider including all relevant information in your initial post -- since the part in bold was not included..... I had no idea which division the shooter was competing in -- I knew only that he shot a bolt action 1911. Open minor, for score would have been the correct call once he moved to the Glock; I have no issues with Production for fun at a Level 1, and as match director might have even entered his results in EZWS for all stages, scored the match and e-mailed him the results for his own edification, before removing him from the match and publishing the official scores.... That way he'd get to see how he stacked up against the other competitors..... Third option -- he withdraws from the match in SS, and sees if he can reenter in Production as an additional gun, thereby getting to shoot all stages with the Glock..... Yes, I should have included that info....Just thought to myself, single stack 1911, what other division would he be shooting? I know, I know....Limited 10, possibly Limited and Open.... But the question is: Moving from SS major to a Production gun minor, even though his actual ammo for the PD gun was surely minor, as he regularly shoots PD, he would still be moved to Open since his original declaration of SS major could not be met? No way to move to another suitable division voluntarily instead of open? Essentially, by using the Glock in SS, he busts the division requirements -- hence the move to open...... See 6.2.5.1 If he wanted to shoot for score at a local match, he could simply re-enter in production and shoot the whole match, with MD approval. See 6.2.4.1.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diehli Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 (BTW, his splits on the triple were .14 seconds each! ). Huh? Shouldn't those be in the single hundredths of a second range? I thought the cycle time was around .05-.07. Hell, I've thrown .11 splits before (admittedly, with an Open gun). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 (BTW, his splits on the triple were .14 seconds each! ). Huh? Shouldn't those be in the single hundredths of a second range? I thought the cycle time was around .05-.07. Hell, I've thrown .11 splits before (admittedly, with an Open gun). I typoed.... .014 each...that's what the timer displayed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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