Dillon case lube - my test shows probable contamination

[Machine154]

I have an update from the testing that I started 6 months ago on Dillon case lube affects on ammunition (thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=625875) [archived - You can see some up-close photos of the primers in the archived thread]:

__________________________________Initial Prep____Prep______Load*___________Fired_________Total____Test_____Test

Description - Prep in sealed bag________Date_________Qty_______Date____________Date__________Days____Pass____Pass%

Primers with no case lube (control)_____11/16/2011______10______4/10/2012_______5/28/2012_______194_____10______100%

Primers sprayed with Dillon case lube___11/16/2011______10______4/10/2012_______5/28/2012_______194_____10______100%

Primers with W231 powder (no lube)____11/23/2011______5_______4/10/2012_______5/28/2012_______187_____5_______100%

Primers with Dillon case lube plus W231_11/23/2011______5_______4/10/2012_______5/28/2012_______187_____2_______40%

*Loaded with 4.5 gr of W231 and 124 gr FMJ

Winchester primer lot: CBL131G (all)

The failures are non-ignition of primers.

I am actually surprised at what it seems to indicate. A direct spray on the primers seems to have no damaging affect UNTIL powder is added to the mix. The idea of testing with powder as additional variables was added a week after I started the primary test of just sprayed primers in a bag and a control group of primers in a bag. Now I wish I would have tested more of that group with sprayed primers plus powder. Oh, well. I think I have enough information to re-evaluate my loading steps.

I realize that the test is a little extreme since I directly sprayed the primers, but I wanted to get some clear answers. Also, I suppose it is theoretically possible that the Dillon case lube had no influence and there were 3 bad primers out of the tested 5, but I really doubt it.

If you think my test isn't fair, let me know why.

[outerlimits]

Why on earth would one subject primers to case lube...ever?

[Pat Miles]

The failures are non-ignition of primers.

I realize that the test is a little extreme since I directly sprayed the primers, but I wanted to get some clear answers.

If you think my test isn't fair, let me know why.

I'm at a loss... what were you trying to prove or disprove in regards to the way a normal person might approach reloading? Pure silliness and a waste of time and materials.

Pat

[retarmyaviator]

Well, if it ain't broke keep screwing with it until it is.

[Sarge]

What's your point? There are number of things that we could "test" and get failures. The trick is to not do any of them in the real world.

[a.roberts]

Make your sample size statistically significant and you might be on to something.

Or you might just be wasting primers.

[JimmyZip]

As most of us reload with un-primed brass that is primed during the reload process, there really isn't much chance of case lube coming into contact with primers in a significant way or amount. That is probably why you are getting the responses you are. OTOH, if you are reloading with primed brass, and you sprayed a lot of case lube onto your brass, then you might have something. I find that the lanolin is good enough if I need it. But, normally I just use clean, deprimed, and resized brass that is primed in a progressive press with carbide dies. No lube means no residue. Carbide dies are a boon.

YMMV, JZ

P.S. I find that Dillon's case lube is the one product they could greatly improve on. I think it is junk.

[Machine154]

That's fine. Criticism taken. I didn't feel like reiterating the original post from THR, but the backstory here is that I was trying to figure out why a single digit percentage of my ~ 1 year old reloads weren't firing. Very frustrating in a competition stage.

For my regular loading, I would spray the cases in a 1 gallon ziploc and shake them up. They would then be loaded (deprimed, new primer, etc) in my Dillon 550. I only seemed to have the issue after I got into my older stock, so I traveled down this path to research it.

What surprised me was that 100% of the primers fired that I sprayed with case lube, but not if there was also powder included. Somehow the powder mixing with the lube is killing the primer, from my best estimation. The way I was spraying them (not all flat) and shaking them in a bag would easily lead to leftover lube inside the case. My presumption now is that the mixture of powder and case lube is killing primers.

I would post pics of the real-world failed primers from my original post, but I don't have the senority here to even post pics, which is lame-o.

Here is a photo of REAL WORLD LOADS: The one on the left is from one of my failed regular reloads and the one on the right is from another random round from the same generation. The primer on the left did not look like that when I put it in the feeder tube.

Edited May 30, 2012 by Machine154

[Machine154]

Apparently I reached enough posts for photos now - yipee!

Edited May 30, 2012 by Machine154

[Sarge]

For starters I think Dillon case lube is an inferior product. I tried it and thought it left waay too much residue everywhere. I now only use it to keep my comp clean.

I only use one shot now but I spray the inside of the bag and then drop the brass in. This way I don't get any inside the case which probably is a bad idea anyway.

[Flatland Shooter]

For starters I think Dillon case lube is an inferior product. I tried it and thought it left waay too much residue everywhere. I now only use it to keep my comp clean.

I only use one shot now but I spray the inside of the bag and then drop the brass in. This way I don't get any inside the case which probably is a bad idea anyway.

Both good points Sarge. I've not tried case lube on the comp (have you tried One Shot?) and in the future I will make it a point to spray One Shot into the bag prior to adding the brass.

Bill

[Sarge]

For starters I think Dillon case lube is an inferior product. I tried it and thought it left waay too much residue everywhere. I now only use it to keep my comp clean.

I only use one shot now but I spray the inside of the bag and then drop the brass in. This way I don't get any inside the case which probably is a bad idea anyway.

Both good points Sarge. I've not tried case lube on the comp (have you tried One Shot?) and in the future I will make it a point to spray One Shot into the bag prior to adding the brass.

Bill

I read on here that the lanolin in the Dillon case lube sticks to the comp and keeps the crud from building up so fast and being hard to get off. I tried it and wouldn't you know it, it really works. One shot won't work.

[theycallmeingot]

i spray the INSIDE of my cases with one shot, as it's the inside that sticks in the powder funnel. but then, the case gets deprimed and a new primer put in. so far, i haven't had a primer fail to go off.

[splitime]

Machine, if you want to try some One Shot, I live a few towns away(Winfield) and you can try some of mine. So far I'm liking it alot.

[Machine154]

Machine, if you want to try some One Shot, I live a few towns away(Winfield) and you can try some of mine. So far I'm liking it alot.

Thanks - I appreciate the offer. Do you know what is in it that makes it different? Maybe I could retry the test with some of that, some W231 and higher # of primers. I could bring by 10 primers and we can shoot them with One Shot.

I think I am going to skip case lube on my pistol rounds, even though it makes it easier. For .223 rifle rounds, I will use up my Dillon case lube, but then tumble after sizing in soapy water and stainless pins. For 50 cal, I am using imperial sizing wax.

I never noticed a problem until I got into older stock, so if I just ease off of stockpiling in the winter, I shouldn't have problems anyway.

I just though I would share these indications, since it was a brutal 6 months of working off the older lots with failures. The worst was 8 rounds out of 100 - made for very bad results in a timed stage. Even worse than my scores usually are.

Edited May 30, 2012 by Machine154

[Machine154]

i spray the INSIDE of my cases with one shot, as it's the inside that sticks in the powder funnel. but then, the case gets deprimed and a new primer put in. so far, i haven't had a primer fail to go off.

What is the longest you've held onto your ammo that was made up this way? and what powder are you using?

[theycallmeingot]

About 11 months with winchester primers and clays.

about 7 with winchester primers and wsf.

[JON]

I have used One Shot for years. Put brass in a french fry strainer spray and shake up and spray again. Never had any problems. Any excess media even falls through the strainer and won't give you problems in the case feeder tube. You are ready to load.

Jon

[splitime]

Machine, if you want to try some One Shot, I live a few towns away(Winfield) and you can try some of mine. So far I'm liking it alot.

Thanks - I appreciate the offer. Do you know what is in it that makes it different? Maybe I could retry the test with some of that, some W231 and higher # of primers. I could bring by 10 primers and we can shoot them with One Shot.

I think I am going to skip case lube on my pistol rounds, even though it makes it easier. For .223 rifle rounds, I will use up my Dillon case lube, but then tumble after sizing in soapy water and stainless pins. For 50 cal, I am using imperial sizing wax.

I never noticed a problem until I got into older stock, so if I just ease off of stockpiling in the winter, I shouldn't have problems anyway.

I just though I would share these indications, since it was a brutal 6 months of working off the older lots with failures. The worst was 8 rounds out of 100 - made for very bad results in a timed stage. Even worse than my scores usually are.

Not being sure what is in the Dillon stuff (let alone having not checked the One Shot label) I couldn't say. I JUST started using it though, simply spraying some onto the brass in my case feeder.

I do love how much easier the loading goes with it on, I'll probably continue to do it since I have an undersize die in and that requires a bit more leverage I suspect.

Just let me know if you want to try some.

[frag316]

One thing about One Shot is that if you're doing large batch reloading, it has a tendency to dissipate over time. I really only use it for rifle loading, and I generally do about 50 cases at a time (I limit myself based on the reloading tray). I also use it to lube the shellplate for my LnL AP. I generally throw the brass into a box, spritz it, then shake, then spritz again. Works like a champ.

I have used the Lyman lube in the past. It's main benefit is that it lasts longer. That's also the main con to using it--it sits on the cases, that's why it lasts longer. I use it only to size and deprime rifle brass before I tumble.

[Dirty Rod]

Machine154,

Have you contacted Dillon to see what they say about the dead primers?