michael1778 Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 First, let me apologize if this is more new guy junk I'm posting. I hope it is useful to others over time. There is a new JP rifle (SCR-11) available now that has a 20" inch medium contour barrel. I could order it today and have it ship in a day or two. But, I'm trying to buy a rifle that would be the center of a configurable system that could span from Limited to Tactical Optics to Open with accessory, optics, or other sighting system changes. I see that as investment protection for such a premium rifle. Also, my shotgun choice will push me into Open in a monthly match close to me only because of barrel length. So be it, I'll run around with the race gun crowd for that match, fine. A different type of fun.... If I get the same or similar JP rifle in 18" light or medium contour I'll have to go through the normal order and custom build process that is 8-10 weeks long. I'll miss preparation for Texas multigun and quite possibly the match itself. If that's the way I should go to get the most out of the investment over the long-term, then so be it. However, I wanted some experienced people to check me. 20" for Texas seems like a nice idea since I'll be in Limited at that match (with some longer range shots). My worry is that in other matches or shorter range courses of fire I could be holding myself back on transition time between targets. The SCR-11 that is available now is functionally configured as I would with the except the 20" medium contour barrel. I wouldn't pick the stock or grip on this SCR-11 but those are easily removed, saved for another build or future need, and replaced with more desired items. The barrel is my 'hang up'. I'd like to hear your ideas on if I'm stressing over a less minor point than it seems. Trying to buy once/cry once! Thanks, Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 First, you won't buy only once, lets just set that nasty rumor down right now. Have you shot a 16, 18, 20 at various distances and set up in various configurations? If not, that really is your best bet. Longer barrels kind of help with velocity vs. recoil, but they transition slower. Who cares if you can run .10 splits if your transitions are measured with a sun dial? The common wisdom today favors the 18" barrel length, but some people do better with shorter or longer. The length, especially in TO and Open has more to do with recoil imulse than velocity BTW. If I was in your position and I was dead set on a JP, I would order the 20" and get to practiving with it. I would also shoot some 18" guns when I got a chance. If the 18" really felt (and proved on the clock) better, I would, in November, take that barrel off and get it cut back to 18". Add maybe $150 max to the deal and know you have the time to get familiar now, and make a change if you want later. It is pretty hard to glue 2" back on an 18" barrel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael1778 Posted February 15, 2012 Author Share Posted February 15, 2012 First, you won't buy only once, lets just set that nasty rumor down right now. Have you shot a 16, 18, 20 at various distances and set up in various configurations? If not, that really is your best bet. Longer barrels kind of help with velocity vs. recoil, but they transition slower. Who cares if you can run .10 splits if your transitions are measured with a sun dial? The common wisdom today favors the 18" barrel length, but some people do better with shorter or longer. The length, especially in TO and Open has more to do with recoil impulse than velocity BTW. If I was in your position and I was dead set on a JP, I would order the 20" and get to practicing with it. I would also shoot some 18" guns when I got a chance. If the 18" really felt (and proved on the clock) better, I would, in November, take that barrel off and get it cut back to 18". Add maybe $150 max to the deal and know you have the time to get familiar now, and make a change if you want later. It is pretty hard to glue 2" back on an 18" barrel. Never shot an 18" barreled AR before. Only 20" a few times way back in college (Army ROTC before I transferred majors and schools to study engineering) 24 years ago and my current 16" carbine length gas S&W M&P15. Actually, I've considered Loki and Firebird, also. But I strongly dislike the location and mechanics of the traditional AR charging handle. BTW, thank you. I was hoping to get your thinking on this matter. You made a recent reply to another AR barrel post and I found your comments very helpful! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tizzle Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 I personally like the 20" barrel. It's heavy but I like the weight. My favorite part is that it's a fast barrel. I can easily get over 3000fps with very light loaded 62grain bullets and my long range 69grainers are lasers. I find the extra speed to be dramatic on activators and hold overs are easier. As always, it's a matter of opinion but like Mark said you can always cut it down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cajun0007 Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 I have a 18" JP lw barrel on one rifle and a 20" JP medium on another. Both barrels are super accurate, I don't really notice the difference in transitioning from target to target, and the 18" has less muzzle flip/recoill than the 20". The reason for the less recoil is because of the 18" has the rolling thunder comp, the 20" has the JP Cooly comp. If more velocity is important to you go with the 20", if you like the feel of of a lighter rifle go with the 18" lw. Both barrels are more accurate than I could ever hope for. In summary, you can't go wrong with either barrel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael1778 Posted February 15, 2012 Author Share Posted February 15, 2012 (edited) Thank you all. I decided to pick up the phone and call Firebird. They should have a quote to me shortly. Lead time has to be checked on a couple of my selected parts. Regardless, it was a great discussion with Jim and Nanci. A big thank you to Jim for stepping away from his current build to talk to me personally. Good people!! It's good to be able to look at different options and then make the decision. Mark, that looks like your rifle with the ACS stock on the red background. True? Edited February 15, 2012 by michael1778 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Mark, that looks like your rifle with the ACS stock on the red background. True? Yep. Did most of the photography for the original website. Firebird will build you a great rifle! The 18" Nordic barrels they use are the same ones I use and they are great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Player Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 So.....my opinion is that you should get the 18" gun. It is the best all around barrel length in my opinion. I had an 18" JP upper and I loved it. I think for ports and such the shorter gun it the way to go and the velocity loss is minimal. I agree that you you should get the gun you want even tho everybody should have multiple ARs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Player Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 I will be shooting the Texas Multigun as well. I have an 18" cmmg gun with a free float barrel AR. You are welcome to borrow it for the match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Tischauser Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 I have a 18" JP lw barrel on one rifle and a 20" JP medium on another. Both barrels are super accurate, I don't really notice the difference in transitioning from target to target, and the 18" has less muzzle flip/recoill than the 20". The reason for the less recoil is because of the 18" has the rolling thunder comp, the 20" has the JP Cooly comp. If more velocity is important to you go with the 20", if you like the feel of of a lighter rifle go with the 18" lw. Both barrels are more accurate than I could ever hope for. In summary, you can't go wrong with either barrel. This is perfect advice!!! If you can transition a lot faster with an 18" than a 20" you need a 16". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cajun0007 Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 NO difference in transitioning between the 18" & 20". To much drinking and reading Mayor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael1778 Posted February 16, 2012 Author Share Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) I will be shooting the Texas Multigun as well. I have an 18" cmmg gun with a free float barrel AR. You are welcome to borrow it for the match. Shane, that is an exceptionally kind offer. I'm very grateful. I will PM you soon. And thank you all for your comments and thoughts. I'm waiting on my estimate from Firebird. Might call Loki, also. But the Versa Max is ordered and could be here tomorrow. ------------- Edit at 2:04pm EST: The SCR-11 in available inventory at JP just vanished from the site. And the PSC-11 upper that I knew was sold but had not been removed from the page is now gone, as it should be. Back to the drawing board..... Edited February 16, 2012 by michael1778 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HRider Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Shooters Connection has a couple of JP CTR02 rifles in stock. You might want to look at them also. Hurley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trickpony Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) Shane, that is an exceptionally kind offer. I'm very grateful. I will PM you soon. And thank you all for your comments and thoughts. I'm waiting on my estimate from Firebird. Might call Loki, also. But the Versa Max is ordered and could be here tomorrow. Definately give LOKI a call, they offer great rifles and customer service. They can build you exactly what you want at a very resonable price. And PM me for a little bonus if you decide to order a LOKI Edited February 17, 2012 by trickpony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael1778 Posted February 17, 2012 Author Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) Definately give LOKI a call, they offer great rifles and customer service. They can build you exactly what you want at a very resonable price. And PM me for a little bonus if you decide to order a LOKI "Member trickpony cannot receive new messages" was the error I got on PM attempt. I will give Loki a call tomorrow and get their recommendations. I hope I get through to a real person at some point. Seems like a busy time of year in the industry. Edited February 17, 2012 by michael1778 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deathtrap Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 18 seems to be the best for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Stephens Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 I have been running the 20" JP for 2.5 years now and love it. Just built another upper with an 18" light contour for matches where there isn't as much long range targets. I still plan on using the 20 at RM3G for the higher velocity and smaller holdovers as I am shooting limited only this year. Haven't really shot enough rounds thru this 18 to give a good comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
co-exprs Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 I'm running a 20" medium JP barrel now. Works great, but when this tube is burned up, I'll most likely go to an 18". There is only a small difference in velocity between the two and the well made 18" barrels are so accurate now, there really isn't any accuracy advantage to the 20" any more. Good 18" barrels are plenty capable out to ballistic limits. Any more, you really can have a light weight rifle which is a tack driver and runs smooth as butter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larry weeks Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 +1 on the Rolling Thunder. The ability to tune it by drilling - Jesse did a nice post on this - makes it shoot very flat. I like my 18" Sabre but I'm so slow on transitions I don't think a 24" would be any slower, or a 10" any faster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twodownzero Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 I personally think that the ideal is the lightest, shortest AR you can stand, unless the matches you go to have ranges beyond what is practical for the barrel length. So given these two choices, 18" would be the clear choice for me. My personal rifle is a 14.5" midlength. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Weidhaas Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 I've ran 20, 18 and 16" JP rifles. The 20" JP15 for 4.5 years, a 18" CTR02 for about 2 years and a 16" JP15 upper for about a month. Loved the 20"!! Never felt the longer bbl held me back when runnin and gunnin and loved the stability of the full size rifle on the long range targets. The 18" was nice and ran great. That said, I didn't feel there was any real benefit over the 20". Some say the shorter gun is easier to manuever/transition in tight ports / areas, but I never had a problem with the 20" bbl. I also thought the weight of the 20" gun made it easier to steady/hold on longer targets from awkward positions. I hated the 16" upper. I would blow by targets on transitions and thought the rifle jumped around and was harder to hold on longer targets. My son's AR has an 18" dpms 1:8 twist bbl and a rolling thunder comp and a JP adj. gas block (rifle was a combo build by first Benny Hill and then JP). The rolling thunder comp combined with the JP adj. gas block is softer and flatter shooting than with the JP Bennie Cooley comp. Hope this helps, Nick- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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